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Comment by ProfessorLayton | Hacker News Reader

This is a nice upgrade for the Model S, however, I'm really curious what Tesla's design refresh roadmap looks like for their older models. The Model S has remained mostly the same since 2012, and while the design is pretty good, very few companies can get away without a major design refresh for 7+ years.

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Camaro (9 years), Ford Ranger (8 years), Mustang Shelby GT500 (30 then 7 years), Acura NSX (11 years), Challenger (24 years) and the Ford GT (11 years) all come to mind.

Also keep in mind Tesla technically already did a somewhat refresh, like a generation 1.5 of sorts in 2016 [1] (New seats, slight interior changes, facelift, autopilot updates).

1. https://www.autoblog.com/photos/2017-tesla-model-s-facelift-...

I wonder if this still applies in the same way, considering how few Model S units there are from 2012-2014, relative to mass market cars like the Camry.

For a lot of people outside the Bay Area, a Model S still feels like a design revelation, not old hat.

Does the 2016 refresh not count?

The 2016 refresh was basically equivalent to most models mid-cycle design update. It was exactly that, a refresh, not a replacement model.

WV seems to update their cars basically every year. Also mixing and matching single parts, like updating the headlights year X, then year X+1 a total refresh with newer headlights that look almost like the smaller refresh from the year before!

I am impressed that they can do stuff like that, but they are also kinda big....

Not to me. I judge Tesla on the same metrics as any other car company. The Model S is getting long in the tooth.

As long as I can smoke that Maserati at a stoplight on Sand Hill Road, not a problem.

People in the luxury goods category expect much, much more than just straight line performance. Handling the corners or interior aesthetics and quality isn't something I would choose Tesla for for example.

I love how this is (was) down-voted but this is exactly kind of comment people on HN would use to poo poo the various ~700hp straight line rockets that FCA sells (which you can get with arguably better interiors than any Tesla). "It's not a true luxury car because it's only good in a straight line" is a perfectly valid (and widely held) opinion but if you invoke it against Tesla that's not ok.

I’ve done that in PA with a Ford Focus because the Maserati driver was on their cell phone. They obviously caught up and passed me once they bothered to start driving, but I bet they didn’t look at their cell phone the rest of their drive home, either.

I agree. After driving a P3D this weekend one of my conclusions was that if you wanted to street race, there were very few cars that would beat it aside from one of the P-model S's.

But if you want a drivers car, Tesla is not currently in that market. I look forward to seeing someone serve that market. Maybe BMW will try to live up to their motto again.

Really? So many models live forever. Do you think the "Mustang" is long in the tooth?

For what it’s worth, the Mustang had a somewhat significant refresh in 2011 (totally new engine design, but not considered a new generation), then another refresh around 2014 (mostly exterior body changes IIRC).

With the Mustang is that there's only so much you can do and still stay at the Mustang price point. The changes made to the Mustang (and Camaro for that matter) is dependent on technological progress making things that were once reserved for expensive cars cheap and regulatory compliance forcing updates to the main body structure (no reason to spend money to re-tool for a different tub if you don't need to since you gain basically nothing from doing that by itself).

Adding IRS was pretty significant though.

The Mustang and Camaro are both pretty incredible cars, managing to stay fairly inexpensive* while gaining tremendous performance just in the past 10-15 years. I remember the year when the Mustang GT first matched and then exceeded the BMW M3 on the track. The rest is history, the current pony cars are amazing performers and excellent values.

* To be fair, both Mustang GT and Camaro SS are objectively not inexpensive cars except when you compare them to other cars of similar performance.

2015 it got a new chassis, that was the year Ford switched from S197 to S550. They will introduce a new one in 2021, the S650.

The current Mustang is on the sixth generation, it got a new chassis in 2015. So, while not as aged as the Model S, it is getting towards the end of this generation, yes. The seventh generation is planned to hit streets in 2021.

More than model S , model X badly needs a refresh. Thing started to look like a giant Prius.

Do they have to follow the convention? Are consumers irked by their breaching of the convention?

I think existing owners would already understand that their cars are iteratively improved upon and that a Model S purchased in 2019 is going to be a lot better than one they purchased in 2013.

Well, there’s also the facelift and all wheel drive.

All other car manufacturers play that game.

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