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I don't think its mean spirited.

"Dive bars" have always been popular.

A friend of mine in college opened a dive bar, which quickly became very very popular. This was the type of place where you could smell the ammonia from the urinal when you walked in the door. Spending more than an hour in there, and you left smelling like cigarette smoke and stale beer.

When opening his 2nd bar, he made the rookie mistake of "trying to finally do it right". His new bar was walking distance from the original, and had a beautiful wood bar, leather chairs, fancy plate glass windows with frosted lettering, etc (top notch plumbing too).

His 2nd bar never caught on and he eventually had to close.

The importance of "dive's" is that everyone feels comfortable. You feel you can do no wrong. Spill your beer...so what. Whereas if the place it too fancy, everyone becomes too self-aware.

These types of places like BdB aren't about customers "looking down" on the place, its about being in a place thats comfortable and where the average joe doesn't feel looked down upon.

everything in your description of a dive from "smell the ammonia", to "cigarette smoke and stale beer" to "spill your beer...so what" makes me feel uncomfortable.

Some people feel comfortable in Dive bars and others in the King Cole Bar.

Where I grew up there where two bars basically next door to each other. One was a dive who's primary selling point was that the drinks where always cheaper than next door and the other was a nicer place who's primary selling point was that it didn't attract the sort of people who's primary concern was how cheap the beer was. Both did very well.

Traveling a bit, I've noticed that regardless the language, customs, atmosphere or locality that all pubs offer a kind of simple baseline. Whether it's in a ship or a totally foreign country, you can get a beer and some food and ask pretty direct questions of your bartender to get an honest lay of the land around you.

The best part of the crappy, touristy cruise ships is getting the hell off the ship and finding a local pub where you can chat with the locals outside of the tourist/vendor relationship.

The second best part of those ships is finding the empty pub onboard where the crew will open up and share their own stories and experiences.

Cheesecake Factory? They're famous for having terrible decor, service, and food, yet somehow being an essential part of the American high school prom experience.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/dude-goes-viral-for...

lol the chain of tweets and the reaction at the end was pretty funny.

> Cheesecake Factory? They're famous for having terrible decor, service, and food,

I've always found CF to have decent service and good (but not outstanding) food, a ludicrously long menu being the main negative, plus the fact that it's always ludicrously crowded because they underprice for their appeal.

The decor is gaudy, but not what I would describe as terrible (or even unpleasant, just incongruous.)

They've got cheesecake, who cares about decor?

Being hated by hipsters who resent simple pleasures available to all is part of the appeal.

I get so peeved by the treatment of chain restaurants like this as "poor" or "terrible". Because you know what, Cheesecake Factory, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Outback Steakhouse? These are some of the nicest restaurants the average citizen can hope to afford to go to more than once in their lifetime.

It isn't going to impress folks who have a personal chef at home, but the food is pretty darn good, and you don't have to saw off your right arm to pay for it.

The value proposition really isn't that great. It's not any cheaper than food from a local Italian joint. What you're paying for is that Olive Garden experience, whatever that is worth to you.

A good example is the Olive Garden in Times Square. It's _always_ packed despite there being better Italian places a few blocks away. Not to mention, if you're willing to hop on the subway there's significantly better Italian food available in the outer boroughs for much cheaper. Olive Garden isn't that cheap, that nice, or that tasty which makes it a mystery to a lot of people.

Part of that value prop is predictability. There are a lot of people who like to know exactly what they'll get, even when (especially when) travelling, and this is also why highway rest areas and airports so often have national fast food & coffee chains.

I would argue the cost is not much higher than fast food, but the quality is arguably still a large step up. Obviously these places get a lot of points for their excellent choice of bread (be they sticks, biscuits, etc.), and there's arguably something to be said for going to a restaurant and knowing they have food you like.

If you go to these restaurants a little more regularly, you also can stack up the rewards benefits, sometimes you can get discounted gift cards, etc. All of which you will not find at a non-chain restaurant.

Which is to say, if I can get a sirloin for the cost of a Whopper, it isn't much of a mystery why people go there.

Olive Garden's appeal in Times Square is the same as McDonald's: you're in a strange place, but you know what you can expect to find inside, and you know your kids will eat it while you have a glass of mediocre wine.

FWIW, if you go to McDonald's in some foreign countries you will be in for a shock as they serve many region-specific items. (Though in Paris, it's a pleasant shock, it's mostly the same but all of the food is better/healthier.)

Source: Yes, I traveled to the capital of a country known explicitly for it's exquisite food and did patronize a McDonald's.

i stopped in at one in new zealand for shits and grins. got some sorta tandoori wtfever chicken thing. it was vile. but it was exploring the unknown known.

also: walmarts in mexico are a step up from the ones in the us.

FWIW, if you go to McDonald's in some foreign countries you will be in for a shock as they serve many region-specific items.

I still remember getting a surprisingly nice pepperoni pizza at a McDonald's in the US many years ago. Undoubtedly the nicest thing I've eaten at a McDonald's anywhere in the world.

Yes, I traveled to the capital of a country known explicitly for it's exquisite food and did patronize a McDonald's.

Some of the, by far, worst restaurants I've ever eaten at have been in France so there's a chance that McDonald's wasn't the worst choice you could have made.

I don't think it's really price snobbery. I've been to much nicer restaurants with average plate prices in the $10–$20 dollar range that those places fall into. There are even a lot of "foodie" places in that range.

Many local diners have a better steak for the same price as an Outback. The chains definitely win on always-good-enough consistency, since you know exactly what you're going to get at what price.

> These are some of the nicest restaurants the average citizen can hope to afford to go to more than once in their lifetime.

This is almost undoubtedly untrue.

There are many independent or local restaurants in most regions that cost the same (or less) than the chains you mention. Ethnic restaurants frequently deliver more bang for the buck. In all of these non-chain categories there are “nicer” options that deliver a better atmosphere, food, wine, whatever the citizen in question is looking for.

As for the chains, they should have at least one thing to offer: consistency. No one is faulting folks for having a guilty pleasure, or working a chain into their routine when they’re looking for a known quantity meal.

But some people never break out of the mundane that consistency brings. The types who are too afraid to try things because they’re supposedly “fancy.” Or because they don’t look like they 2nd generation immigrants who run the restaurant down the road. The kind of folks who go to a Buca in Honolulu or Applebee’s in Times Square; those places are expensive as shit, and living a life like that is truly terrible.

Olive Garden in particular's worse than middle-high tier frozen Italian food in a bag, which comes out to the same price or cheaper. Certain dishes are worse than budget frozen Italian food that can be prepped in its container, a microwave. Granted you have to do some work for those but it's usually "heat in pan, serve" or similar. It used to be better (like, 10+ years ago) but has gotten quite a bit worse. Maybe a few dishes are better than that, but none of the ones I've ordered when I've gone in the last decade or so—one gets invited, and a place has to be damn bad before they go on my "I will risk being rude to avoid going here, and will not take the food for free" list.

Kinda like how up to a few years ago Noodles & Company was pretty good cheap food, then they doubled all their portion sizes and their food unaccountably dropped to sub-frozen-and-boxed-food quality levels and they started calling themselves "World Kitchen" or something.

When I read one of those I mentally replace the name with "McDonalds." As in, look at this hifalutin' VIP bigwig who's too good for McDonalds ... or Starbucks. Not saying much.

None of these are my favorite restaurants, but they'll do in a pinch.

Every time I go to Cheesecake Factory or Red Lobster, I can always think of better replacements at the same price point.

I think some of it is cultural. Like BdB, these restaurants cater to a little gluttony. Portions are generally HUGE, and there's no disdain for a person who wants a Bloomin' Onion or endless breadsticks. Darden knows how to do an upscale steakhouse; it also knows what draws in thrifty, hardworking people who want overindulgence without pity or scorn.

We recently got dragged to a local outpost of "The Pizza Ranch," a 250+ location chain that serves fried chicken and pizza with wagonwheel decor. The waiting line looked like a casting call for People of Walmart. And that's just it; it's a different market. It's not serving the middle-aged man who wants a well-prepared meal with fresh ingredients.

> the average citizen can hope to afford to go to

None of the places you listed are cheap. The price of a steak at CF or Outback is about the same as the price of a steak at any "$$" restaurant. Olive garden is particularly expensive for what they offer (except lunch, which is a legitimately good deal as long as you're okay with eating 3 days worth of calories in breadsticks and can afford to be in a food coma all afternoon). And red lobster is just legit expensive and low-quality... you're better off on both price and quality with pretty much any other restaurant that has a fish menu...

Applebees, Chilis, and TGI Fridays, on the other hand, do have truly "economy" menu items. However, you still get what you pay for -- the key insight is that those places compete with bars, not restaurants, on price point. You can get sauce-covered chicken strips with frys for $10 at any mom and pop corner bar...

Wow, I must be pretty unsophisticated. I always thought cheesecake factory was a fancy place. I guess being located at the fancy retail mall must have colored my perception.

It's actually a pretty American playbook for restaurants especially in the south. There are many BBQ, Southern Cookin, fried fish places that do this all over the place. I'm in Texas and my family frequents these types of places a lot.

I thought it was really interesting and enlightening that anyone could think about a restaurant this way - shows how little I know about the hospitality industry. I always pegged it to be going for different social classes sort of thing, but then I could never figure out why a burger and fries at a red robin is about the same as most steakhouses, and people were okay with that.

It definitely does make you feel like you don't need to impress anyone to be there - the real value that comes from making a place people feel socially relaxed is something I haven't thought much about.

> What are some other examples of American restaurants that followed this playbook?

I would argue Panda Express is spiritually similar in some ways.

On some ways, but I think PF Chang’s is perhaps a better example because it’s more sit down like BdB, whereas PX is more fast food and it also goes a bit over the top with regards to iconography and imaging. For Americana, probably Armadillo Willy’s.

Armadillo Willy's is an awfully local reference. They only have a few locations relative to the other chains mentioned in this thread, and the furthest from the South Bay is in Dublin.

I once went to the Ripley's Believe It or Not museum in Baltimore.

The exhibits were both amazing and ridiculous.

They had paintings of Bill and Hillary Clinton drawn in Hamburger grease. They had a giant picutre of Bill Gates, but when you got close, the "pixels" were different colored keyboard keys.

Was it "high art"? I think not. Was I entertained? yes.

and I have to say the whole article reminded me a little of this onion "article":

https://www.theonion.com/european-men-are-so-much-more-roman...

(sorry)

Perhaps Olive Garden and Outback Steakhouse, maybe Texas Roudhouse or Hard Rock Cafe. Absolutely Hooters.

The flair-era of TGI Fridays, as immortalized in Office Space.

There is a movie called Waiting, that does a great job of illustrating that era and those type of restaurants.

It’s not mean spirited, it’s tacky and tacky is amazingly comfortable because it invokes humor. The Pope room is hilarious even for Catholics because it is not mean spirited but a tacky but well meaning room. It’s comfortable and you know it’s not snooty so you can be at ease with their quite good service. Also, the portion size makes it family or group ordering at not a “I’ll have” place.

Joe's Crabshack. Margaritaville. Texas Roadhouse. Chuy's is borderline.

Many American chains can fit under this guise. As others have said: Cheesecake Factory, Panda Express, Taco Bell, but also McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, Pizza Hut, Domino's, In 'n' Out, Whataburger...none of them pretend to offer a haute dining experience.

Ones that I would argue don't want to be looked down upon (but are) are the likes of Olive Garden, Chili's, Applebees, Texas Roadhouse. They put on a facade of being fancy, but everyone knows most dishes served at these places were frozen and put in the microwave minutes before they are served. I could be wrong with the examples I gave though; it's been a long time since I've eaten out at any of them...

Applebees and Chilis sort of skirts the line - they want the after-work crowd but also families at the same time. They don't really have an identity, but I think thats sort of the point - be as generic an option as possible to have as wide a market as possible, offend no-one.

Despite a lot of jokes and offended Yelp reviews I see accusing virtually every restaurant at every price level of that, I'd be surprised if any were literally microwaving frozen meals to serve. They use a lot of frozen and canned ingredients for dishes, and probably use mixes made for them in commercial kitchens and shipped to the restaurants. But a little cooking at the end can go a long way.

Chili's, for instance, serves not only freshly made salsa but freshly fried chips. The tortillas are pre-made and pre-cut and just need to be dumped in the oil, and you can make salsa in batches by dumping pre-measured portions in a blender. Panda Express is cooking everything on site throughout the day, too. Take the right bags of pre-cut vegetable blends, the meat, the sauce, stir it all furiously in a big wok, put it on a heat table. No microwave.

Most of the speed of "casual" restaurants just comes from doing a lot of prep work ahead of time, keeping everything from sauces to precooked vegetable mixes in warmers, and using the same ingredients across a range of dishes. (Prepare five grilled meats, six sauces, and put them on beds of rice, mashed potatoes, or pasta, and now come up with a name for each possible combination. Presto! You're a Cheesecake Factory.)

> What are some other examples of American restaurants that followed this playbook?

It's pretty common (perhaps dominant) with ethnic (or American regional, and some other strong themes) chains or single-location restaurants, because it promotes accessibility by making alien elements less off-putting. It's a way to make it so the restaurant doesn't seem to be looking down on the customers.

It arose organically before the restaurants adopted it, but Taco Bell and White Castle have both embraced their reputations as food for the chemically impaired. Almost every time* I've heard someone talk about either restaurant, they have a glee as if sliders or a gordita crunch are a form of debauchery.

*the exception is vegetarians who have a lot of completely earnest love for the bean burrito.

Junk food is absolutely a form of debauchery, or at least can be a guilty pleasure.

I'm not sure it's necessarily that people "look down on it", but that the authenticity is derived from something inauthentic.