There are really only two: the MBP and the ThinkPad.
Given that the poster is using the system to learn to program, I doubt he needs the MBP. The MB should more than suit that need.
With that said, I'll also recommend that you get a ThinkPad instead of a Mac. They're time- and battle-tested machines, and work well. The Mac may seem to have less problems, but both usually have about the same amounts of problems, but just of some different natures.
I like the Mac, and I can live with Windows. Both are good machines, and you have to try both to see which one you like better.
It helped me alot in setting up my ThinkPad.
Back to the original Question: IMHO Thinkpads are very good and especially reliable Notebooks, but they also aren't cheap. When getting a Thinkpad then a T-Model most of the others don't differ that much from Notebooks sold by HP or Dell.
Crappy display drivers, a tendency to shut down when you plug them in or dock them, etc. etc.
We're switching to HPs now.
Me, I'm on my second MBP in 3 years and I'm happy. Another friend of mine just replaced his MacBook with a MBP, because it just wasn't quite keeping up.
But one person probably isn't truly a reference... So more references are needed.
I know, just as it'll change again in the next 3 years.
> A new Macbook Pro (such as one he might buy) comes with...
Most of these things come with a standard MacBook, too, so why not buy a MacBook?
Some of the things that MacBook doesn't have that the MBP does:
> $1599 with Student Developer discount
Actually, it's $1799, but that doesn't factor in taxes, which bring it to about retail, or $2000, and that's without any configuration options (the one I bought, spec'ed out again, is still $3000).
(By the way, If you're looking to buy a Mac, look at the Amazon discount over Apple's store: with free shipping and no taxes, it's almost always cheaper.)
> LED Glossy options versus fluorescent matte
True.
> All of this means that his computer might last for more years than before, since the hardware is already top of the line compared not just to mac machines released a year prior, but to high end pc laptops, as well
I guess it's whether or not you're willing to make that bet or not.
> which means he might as well get the MacBook Pro.
Or, he could save a lot of money, get an equivalent machine for his needs, and buy a new one every year and still not spend as much.
>True.
False. The matte screen is LED and its unclear from the specs whether the glossy is LED or fluorescent.
From apple.com: "15.4-inch (diagonal) antiglare widescreen TFT LED backlit display with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display"
The Student Developer discount price is $1599, the student price is $1799.
You can still get a MacBook for half that, which has everything else you mentioned, so why not get a MacBook and upgrade twice as often? (With resale value, you'll be way on top.)
What ultimately caused me to return it was trying to run a 3D plugin of a scene in a drawing program. It was unbelievably slow, while I remembered how well a Dell m1330 ran, which has the same integrated video chipset, Intel's X3100. I researched that either Apple or Intel had crappy video drivers on the Mac for that chipset, which meant it was already behind the times out of the box, never mind in two years.
And with the discount, the MacBook Pro might even be sold for a profit after 3-6 months in the worst case scenario (since including taxes it's worth $2,100), but the same MacBook at either Student Developer or Student price would likely be sold for a loss.
I believe thinkpad is one of the few laptops left that has what's called a stick? you know the little nub on the keyboard that you can use instead of a touch pad, and in reality it's way better than a touch pad. god I hate touch pads.
I wish I had bought a thinkpad.
My MacBook Pro is my second Apple laptop (the first was a G4 powerbook) and it is going to be the last unless things change rapidly before it goes u/s.
- The keyboard is ok, but the metal finish is slippery.
- The large track pad forces typing with wrists at odd angles.
- OS X is horrible (all my applications are Linux native so work oddly on OS X, plus no focus on mouse being my biggest two complaints - the rest are subjective/personal).
- No region crack for the DVD player, which is unacceptable for travel. Doesn't even work with VLC.
On the plus side the build quality is superb, the screen is good, and for it's size/weight the performance is outstanding. I certainly wouldn't trade it for anything other than a Thinkpad or maybe two or three Dells - one a year, for when they break ;)
I've seen people get OS X and then do nothing but run XP under virtualization because they can't be bothered to figure out the OS X native apps. I wonder what, exactly, you mean by "all my applications?"
Plus a few things that aren't so important, like xplanet and SuperKaramba.
Then again, these days, I use so few "Linux only" applications that it would probably be easier than ever to switch. My "regular usage" list is: vim, Firefox, Thunderbird, Perl, bash (and all of the GNU tools, like sed, grep, find, locate, awk, etc.), GIMP, Inkscape, VNC, KVM. But I'd still have to have Linux boxes or virtual machines around, because I need build environments for a dozen or so Linux distributions. And bash and the GNU tools are so vital to my workflow that I'd be suffering a lot of the time.
So, I've considered getting a Mac so that I'd be surrounded by great design (I'm becoming more of a designer and usability guy within my company every day, and my design sense is still woefully inadequate for the job, and I've read on numerous occasions and from numerous sources that one great technique for improving is to surround yourself with great design), but it'd certainly be painful.
Also, middle-mouse-button paste is vital to my happiness, and neither Mac OSX nor Windows has it.
You may have to learn new shortcuts or how to configure things in Windows or OSX but it is all doable. For windows you may have to install Cygwin or PowerShell to get a respectable prompt.
I use a windows box at work. I use Mac and Windows at home. I recently switched from Ubuntu to OSX and I ran into many of the same problems initially. I wanted things to work exactly the same as Ubuntu and that just wasn't happening. After about three months I learned many of the OSX shortcuts and finally configured and set up my linux programs for OSX. Now it's all good.
So, my statement agrees with yours, I think.
I have worked in Windows environments quite a bit when doing contract work, and I'm familiar with Cygwin, but it's not an acceptable command line environment--the way it chafes when doing anything outside of the Cygwin environment is too much friction.
Mac OS X is slightly better now that it has bash by default. But its system tools are weak compared to those found on Linux systems. I feel this same pain when using Solaris and FreeBSD. In all three cases, it's possible to install good versions of those tools, but I have to retrain my fingers to call gawk instead of awk, etc.
Again, it would be easier than ever, because vim has good versions on both Mac and Win, and Perl runs fine everywhere. Firefox and Thunderbird, too. But retraining myself to work in the Mac or Windows way would be uncomfortable. And I hate being uncomfortable.
It's not quite the same as a scroll wheel in that there are some programs where one scrolling technique (wheel or trackpad) will work while the other won't, but it's similar enough to handle most cases.
and infact on linux you can modify the area of the touchpad that does this. I think you can even add horizontal scroll if your touchpad didn't previously support it (not 100% on this).
In other words: if I'm in Safari, I can remap three-finger swipe to changing tabs, swipe down for new tab, rotate right/left to back and forward, etc. It's very useful.
(The better screen rez on the D830 is another)
http://www.thinkwiki.org is the best resource I'm aware of for Linux + Thinkpad installation tips.
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo...
If you hate Apple, then I'd go with a ThinkPad personally, but I don't know what's good on that side of things.
Generally, you're not giving up a whole lot going refurb except a shinier box and the ability to BTO.
If I was unable to use an external screen for extended sessions at home I might favor the larger screen.