How much more? I'm not trying to argue against what you're saying, but I believe that many Americans don't have a good idea of what it costs to run a Western European welfare state. What's the pain maximum for you? 10% more taxes? 50% more? 100% more?
Nope, we pay that on top, currently ~14% of your salary (half of which is paid directly by the employer), the same goes for pensions etc. You do get free healthcare only if you're unemployed, but that's not reality for most Germans.
I'm pretty certain I'm paying the same or less overall. This is especially when I consider my healthcare is included in that tax. This simple things means I'm not as stressed as I would otherwise be.
But hands down, Norway is cheaper. Taxes include healthcare and my tax rate has been just slightly higher than it was total in the states, and many times lower than taxes + health coverage + deductibe + out of pocket.
There are lots of hidden consumption taxes: VAT is 25% on most things, 15% on food, but there is none on books and newspapers. A TV lisence is a thing. On the other hand, they try to make sure poor folks have internet and phone service.
I do think the top tax rate is about half of one's income, which is fine with me if I'm making more money. I'm fine with VAT and things like that.
The thing folks also forget is that some things are actually cheaper when centralized and spread out and coordinated. This works really well in health care because you can do cost evaluation on costs of covering a home nurse a few times a day vs a nursing home.
Americans also forget that one of the missing bits in American society is trust in the government. Folks here don't believe the government is perfect, but most of the bureaucratic bits just work, and lots of them are online and easily accessible.
If it works out for you to live cheaper in Norway, that's great, but Norway has a very special position due to the vast oil wealth, that's not typical for Western Europe.
Also, I'd love for HN to stop flagging just because they disagree politically. It's so annoying to get timed out because of a civil exchange of arguments and opinions. Always look for light in the dark: this community has convinced me that direct democracy isn't a solution for moderation - it means giving the power to censor to those who are most willing to use it.
Sure, but a welfare state isn't just about open homelessness, it's about free education, free health care etc as well.
2. Free public education has made this country what it is today. We wouldn't be one-tenth the world power we are now if we hadn't educated our citizenry to create a high knowledge work force. Killing off education and leaving the majority of the population uneducated would be the single best one change you could make to turn us into a third world country. It's the ultimate in short-termist thinking.
No, you're replying in a subthread that you didn't want to apparently. To quote myself: "I believe that many Americans don't have a good idea of what it costs to run a Western European welfare state".
> Free public education has made this country what it is today
Possibly. I think high skill immigration has also played a very strong role.
And again, since nobody is reading what I'm writing before flagging or angrily replying: I'm not arguing that a high tax welfare state is necessarily a bad idea. While I do believe that it creates bad incentives and has to be very well calibrated (which is hard and usually fails in my experience), that's not what this is about.
The point is that it does not come for free. You will have to pay for it, and you will pay via taxes. You should be aware of that, and I'm interested in finding out how much more people are willing to pay. The reactions I get (anger, disbelief, flagging) lead me to believe that people are vaguely aware of that fact, but don't want to face it. I suggest they do before they implement it.