Working memory revived in older adults by synchronizing rhythmic brain circuits | Hacker News Reader

Working memory revived in older adults by synchronizing rhythmic brain circuits

nature.com

100 pointsmonort38 comments

This reminds me of a section of the book "Why we sleep"[1] that said similar techniques could enhance an older persons sleep quality. (I don't know the title of the study unfortunately.) It looks like this is an exciting area of research right now.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501...

Huh, I wonder if there is something similar to be studied with autistic brains.

(My step-daughter has HFA; difficulty with working memory and executive functioning is common for HFA females).

I was wondering if something like this might help with my ADHD... a thinking cap, if you will :)

Intuitively (I did some research in bioinformatics, including the brain, but mostly its genetics) I would think ADHD could quite possible respond to something like this, while for autism chances are lower. Reasoning being that rhythms are quite prominent in studying focus, while autism probably has a structural aspect.

But before you start attaching electrodes, do consider Ritalin. Among all psychiatric diseases, ADHD has pretty much the best claim to having seen meaningful therapeutic interventions.

Isn’t the structural signal of autism often an underconnection in the brain?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21378114

I agree that it’s more likely ADHD would respond, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t use overdriving to show an underconnected brain how to synchronize in a more neurotypical manner.

There are already treatments like this.

When I was in high school I started a minor computer repair business. One of my customers was a treatment service where they would place electrodes on the head of an individual to measure certain brainwave activity. The electrodes were connected through a device back to a laptop which was playing a video.

I'm explaining it very imprecisely (I'm an expert by no means) but the way it worked is that the video would only play when the measured brainwaves met the pattern(s) established for concentration. The idea being that the person would want the video to play continuously (without pausing or chopping) so badly that their brain would train itself to enter into the "concentrating" brainwave pattern.

I'm not sure what the efficacy of the solution is but the idea was interesting at the time.

UPDATE: Just looked it up and the term they use for this is "neurofeedback" training.

Looks like there are significant criticisms to the approach and study of this treatment so maybe it isn't a viable approach after all.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback

There are certainly criticisms, grains of salt, and hucksterism involved, but I think it would be premature to entirely dismiss neurofeedback. Importantly, there is not “one kind” of neurofeedback, and the specific EEG patterns to optimize for is open to debate.

Douglas Dailey has some interesting hypotheses and an excellent list of references for further investigation: https://tagsync.com/

Neurofeedback isn't quite the same thing as neuro-stimulation. Neurofeedback just encourages (through positive feedback) the brain to stimulate itself :)

I've been practicing meditation for a few years and it has slowly but steadily improved my ability to concentrate. (Also worth mentioning that witnessing emotions as a field of sensation allows them to "dissolve" instead of getting stuck, and has helped me overcome various addictions and roadblocks.)

Meditation was shown to develop the prefrontal cortex (involved in decision-making, working memory, inhibition, emotional regulation..), which is (are) underdeveloped in people with ADHD.

I'm wondering how this kind of independent, willpower based practice compares with the constant external feedback of neurofeedback training, seeing as one of the main deficits in ADHD is self-motivation. My guess is that a combination might be most effective: train the concentrated state itself to make it more accessible, and then train the will (habit) to access it.

Or put another way, make use of both internal and external technology :)

Seems amazing that currents < 2mA at frequencies in the low Hz do anything. That's practically DC, I guess the trick is all in synching the signals to what's going on in your head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_direct-current_st...

I really recommend Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation: A Neurochronometrics of Mind (A Bradford Book) by Vincent Walsh for anyone who wants a really concise view of one aspect of the field. I was super interested in this when I was in my first few years of college but the fear of electrocution pretty much dissuaded me from trying anything like building an apparatus myself.

Isn't there a commercial device built with safety mechanisms to do this?

There is not, as it would have to go through medical device approval.

I'm struggling to remember the name, but there was a company that sold a TDCS machine marketed as a game performance enhancement device. It only did one montage and was ridiculously unsafe. It used to leave red marks under the sponges on my forehead. Eventually, the app that controlled it aged out of the app store.

http://www.natap.org/2019/HIV/s41593.pdf

full text is available at RG https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332281661_Working_m...

Considering the time the treatment takes, I'd be curious to compare the results to 25 minutes a day doing something else which syncs up the brain. Playing an instrument (if physically capable) or meditation.

Say wooot?

Since I can't read the paywalled article I'm wondering how exactly do you apply "noninvasive stimulation" on these frequencies. Was it audio, electrodes on a shaved head, combination of drugs, did this work in rats first etc..

I don't think we can call electrodes on (in?) a shaved head 'non-invasive'...

it is 'on'. And so, yes, we can:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-invasive_procedure

Well, since I don't consider getting a haircut or shaving to be a surgical procedure, I'd disagree.

> To test these predictions, we conducted a double blind, sham-controlled, within-subjects experiment using EEG and high-definition tACS (HD-tACS; a form of tACS that provides more precise targeting of cortical structures)

So they're applying stimulation with electrodes placed on the head. tMS and stuff like this are the main ways available right now for non-invasively inducing oscillatory activity.

Not sure about this article, but there is some work using ultrasonic transducers that I don’t see mentioned frequently. (Magnetic stimulation has a longer history.)

Like this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3581515/

You have a long list of good comments, so it's worth telling you that you were shadow banned at least 6 months ago... I just vouched for this comment and I have showdead enabled.

Yikes, he was shadowbanned in August of 2017 after creating the account in June 2017 and has been commenting into the void ever since!

lol! out of curiosity, how can u tell when their account was banned?

In your profile, enable showdead. The history goes back a way.

Seeing all those unaddressed, never-seen comments causes me some personal existential self-examining on the value (or rather, potential non-value) of my own thoughts :)

So why can I see his comment then? if he's shadowbanned? because you commented?

Because I vouched for it

Its super de-motivational. Par for the course with everything these daysthough.

I don't think it's lol myself, this guy's a good commenter who didn't pick up fast enough on the "politesse above all--even truth, decency and humanity" rules and norms that are in place here on HN. :\

Amen. HN hates any taboo thought crimes.

Thinking is fine, speaking can be problematic. And if you believe speech can do no harm, it can not possibly do good, either. Or we could just randomly generate text and improve the world.

>Or we could just randomly generate text and improve the world.

lorem ipsum would like a word

If we can see the comment now, does that mean they're unbanned or that your "vouch" action undeaded that comment?

The latter.

fao_ -- Thanks a lot for that gesture! Very kind. I did not realize I was shadow banned at all and I'm not sure why I would have been. It does sum up "the internet" in 2019 perfectly for me though.

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