Do people become happier after 40?
economist.com
economist.com
overall i think each decade has had good and bad moments, i dont necessarily think collectively any decade has been better or worse than any other, just different types of good (and bad) and different experiences.
having a family has been a blessing for sure so perhaps that's one of the reasons why the results are such.
one thing i do think about, more often than i'd like, is when i get to a certain age where health has declined significantly, teeth have all fallen out, cartilage in all joints have worn out or thinned to the point where it hurts to walk, taste buds have recessed, risk of a heart attack or stroke increases, aside from having grandkids, quality of life has gone down the drain, i wonder if it's still worth it, somewhat morbis, and probably wont know until you get there.
i think the point is to enjoy the ride to eternity, every decade is a blessing so take the good with the bad
Me, being quite younger than I am now, and seeing most accomplishments in life as being quite uphill from where I was, asked: “Does it ever get any easier?”
She said, “No, but it gets a lot better”
"It never gets easier, you just go faster."
https://www.commacomma.co.uk/it-never-gets-easier-you-just-g...
"I have always struggled to achieve excellence. One thing that cycling has taught me is that if you can achieve something without a struggle, it's not going to be satisfying."
Is it wisdom, or remembering pithy quotes? Is there a difference?
I wonder if its a strapline from some advertising or something.
I was relating a paraphrased version of a rather sincere conversation I was having with the woman over drinks while visiting my port hometown one summer.
I suppose my editing is for naught if it resulted in a tangled questioning of authenticity! ;P
I'm not saying the lady was disingenuous, she passed on wisdom that you got something from. That's good. I just realised it might not have been original, that's all. So I got something from this story too, which is also good :)
I went from thinking 'thats a realy wise lady' to 'I wonder if she borrowed that quote from somewhere'.
Not insinuating anything negative, just you prompted me to view something in a different light.
I'm 32 and my body is already sore all the time. already i miss my body at 21.
not my mind, I'm a lot more mentally stable now. but body deteriorating is a big stressor to me...
Aside from VO2, my vision is also notably worse and some of my teeth are now more filling than original tooth. And the joint flexibility from sedentary education and jobs is gone (yoga is downright painful for me)
Youth is a hell of a drug and I get why people say it's wasted on the young.
No regrets here, but getting older sucks.
I'm glad 32 year old me never talked to 21 year old me. I'd have convinced me to do even more stupid shit while I was still a youth.
i suspect its mostly stress, strain from typing and cell phone use and lifting up my 2 year old all the time
Something else might be at play. Do you get routine medical check-ups? How's your hemoglobin?
....because you would have had them 10-15 years sooner.
Just an observation of the study
But it's not. To a point I do feel like a 14 year old kid these days. And at times.. I even have flashes of child like happiness. Before when I used to remember good times, it would either feel like good+old or nostalgic+old. But what I'm talking about is more like good+present.. just like when I was a child. Some burst of careless and strong inspiration. It doesn't last more than a minute, but knowing that your mind can still have these feels like newfound oxygen.
I guess my point is, don't underestimate your mind and capability for happiness, even in the worst of times, even if counting a decade.
My only hypothesis, is that after trauma you have a finer sense of what is good and bad for you and you kinda filter shit out (be it doubt, anxiety, low self esteem, social pressure) and think/go for simple but deeper fun thoughts/activities that tickle that sense of happiness.
ps: oh also, 30s is also an age where you usually have childrens so childhood is often in your mind. So maybe this is a normal time period to have more attuned brain toward this kind of mindstate.
I'm not sure happiness is the thing to think about. It's meaning that's important. Happiness is a sort of evolutionary trickery to help your savannah-dwelling ancestors. Meaning is something they'd have almost no perspective on, given what's happened in between.
For me I've gotten to this stage where I feel like it's a long way between things that are entirely new.
Personally I've seen deaths, illnesses, births, weddings, divorces. Lots of all of them, from near and far.
Professionally, I've been a junior guy and a senior guy. A founder, individual contributor, a leader, a follower. Seen businesses go well, and go under. Been hired and fired, hired and fired others.
In terms of observations about the world, I'm by no means an expert on everything, but whenever something comes up I can more or less place it. I know roughly what X is, and how other people see it. I no longer get that "holy crap, I never knew tax optimization employed so many people". Or "that declarative languages stuff, it's more important than I first realized".
Same with social, economic, and political stuff. I'm not surprised to run into one or another observance anymore. And I've heard the arguments before. Sometimes better made, but the same stuff.
Science and math seem to still have that potential, so I'm gonna mine that. Things like NNs still throw up new things, even if they can be glued to a long history of thought. And observations about physics can still fascinate, though in little pieces.
I'm thinking cybersecurity next as somewhere to dig as well.
To me personally chemistry seems like a field that's till really young and there is all kinds of room for amateurs to still make discoveries.
Pretty interesting how simply viewing the world through an ever so slightly different verbal lens can have interesting impacts on perspective. albeit mostly only little things. But as you alluded to, it's mostly only the little things that might catch you off guard anymore.
Which is pretty interesting but I wish I had more time to explore it.
What's weird to me is that I never felt that transition happen. It just seems to have occurred over the last few years. A younger me had a real hard time saying no, now it's easy and liberating! I can't tell if it's an age thing or something else though.
I don't think I can transmit this feeling by explaining it, since it's something you can only decide for yourself, but I made the choice to focus on the positive. I still keep the cynical realness in the back of my mind, should I need it, but I don't want to spend most of my time there anymore.
It's been over a month now of much improved mood, hopefully this will stick.
If you're interested I'd recommend reading Thic Naht Hahn, Tolle, the Bhagavad Gita (get it with explanations, The Essence Of is great), etc.
I've found that whether or not I practice the teachings just continuing to read about them keeps me mindful.
And daily metta meditation.
Granted I have far more responsibility than when I was in my 20's, so I think it it's basically a wash there, but at least I'm not stressing about things that seemed really important over a decade ago.
To me it's a source of content and acceptance but depending on your personality it can go the other way.
I still have things I want to do but if they don't happen I am OK with that.
I think it's perfectly fine to be content with this perspective.
However, just a note that many, many people and figures past and present fell into their zone for the first time even in their 60s.
For example: I would love to run my own small company. But I have learned repeatedly that I am no good at selling and also not very creative in coming up with new products. So now I am content with a regular job.
That combined with being able to sift through the shit storm that life throws at you, for the ideals you want and ignoring the rest, helps a lot.
And later you realize you just have this amount of “worries” left. So you better spend them wisely. ;)
I'm not going to try for an answer here, but I will mention an important confounding factor in studies like these: increasing resistance to peer pressure. I find that older people are better able to resist the "work until you drop" or "keep up with the Joneses" messages that society gives us. We're a bit more careful about avoiding things that drag us down and seeking/developing things that pull us up. Not all, of course. Some are surely worse off in all of these ways than any kid fresh out of college. But on average I think older people are better at maintaining their sense of well-being, independently of whether their actual circumstances are better or worse.
Former USSR component States are just......horrific.
The literature of the culture is not very happy ending-ish.
Interesting to see happiness in US females, a very solid and consistent lifelong upward trend after bottoming out in the late 20’s, early 30’s.
Vast difference from Western European women, almost a mirror opposite.
Western European men are almost a lifelong flatline.
I wonder why that is?
From some reason I’m left with a random thought along the lines of “egalitarianism of happiness” for Western European males.
German men, in my experience, tend to get quite obstinate in their old age, and more quick to challenge things they view as incorrect than they would in their youth. This turns into constant harassment for some wives.
Perhaps, the men are also depressed? Maybe if they feel like they're not useful any more because they don't work.
1991-2000 would have been a horrible time for the vast majority of Russians and citizens of former satellites.
Civil freedoms may have improved, but not economic or health outcomes.
Especially for late career or retirees.
Please don't call organized crime a "willingness to bend the rules."
There was a marginal uptrend in happiness and prosperity in the 2004-2008 era, when oil prices were high (for countries that had oil production), but mostly, inequality has been skyrocketing and salaries have been flat for a decade now if not more.
Some countries have never really climbed out of poverty after the collapse of communism (Ukraine, Moldova, Tajikistan, etc.)
I know India is still developing, but I wouldn't have thought it was that bad.
I suspect that a combination of an inefficient bureaucracy (and the accompanying loss of opportunity and competitiveness in international markets) and gross social inequality has a large part to do with it — especially considering ~70% of the population lives in relatively poor villages dotting the countryside.
The lowest castes are effectively slave laborers. They’re willing to travel to places like Dubai to sell themselves into actual slavery for a chance to send one of their kids to a good school. They’re not dumb or unaware of the world outside their impoverished lives, they just have no access to it themselves.
US vs Western Europe: worse work-life balance, bigger families with more kids at an earlier age, more stay-at-home moms. Eventually the kids grow up, one or both of the parents advance in the career and happiness goes up. On the other hand, Europeans look for kids at an age where they already feel financially stable.
For women in the US at least, your late 20s / early 30s are spent grappling with the reality that the job market is still grossly unfair. Women get fewer opportunities, lower pay and less power. It’s fucking depressing because there is still retaliation for speaking up — any women in power got there by propagating the status quo, and they’re honestly more likely to retaliate. I also suspect part of the increase in happiness is due to the number of women who extricate themselves from such situations and find happiness and satisfaction elsewhere.
I suspect Europe simply pushes the “trough of disallusionment” out further. Sure, there are stronger protections in the workplace, but they only really protect the people at the bottom. As you grow older, the burdens just accumulate.
On the flip-side the pressures of my financial situation (ok paying job with stock options, involuntary stay-at-home-partner, living in an expensive german city by job requirement, no savings and some debt because of multiple failed startups in my 20s), job responsibility and ambitions (being a good dad while trying to achieve notable success business-wise) have me constantly worrying and doubting myself lately.
I hope in my 40s I've managed to reduce these pressures by either having achieved the success I was looking for or having accepted my position in life so I can live without the constant anxiety of my dreams slowly withering in front of my eyes and solely focus on the things that are enjoyable in the present. With this in mind I can absolutely see my 40s being more enjoyable then my 20s and 30s, either way.
https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi...
"Among both males and females, the study found that people aged 40 and older are more likely to take antidepressants than younger people."
"The study also found that women are two and a half times more likely to take antidepressant medication as males, while 23 percent of women ages 40 to 59 take antidepressants, more than in any other age or sex group."
https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-...
A population can be both more happy with age and (as a percentage) on more anti-depressants. Some potential explanations:
1. As we age, we have greater access to healthcare (money/quality employment/government), so those needing anti-depressants are able to get them more regularly
2. Even with access to healthcare, there may be greater willingness to make changes in life and confront unhappiness as we age
3. Perhaps those who age are happier overall because they're on anti-depressants. The Economist article doesn't address this possibility.
I feel like the flaw in your argument may be that increased anti-depressant usage among older adults indicates increased depression as a person ages. That doesn't take into account other factors that might cause anti-depressant usage to rise with age.
If you are sad and depressed and have to take medication to be "happy", can we really say you are happy?
If my car can go 200 mph, I wouldn't say I can move 200 mph. But then again drugs change you in a way that cars don't.
Of course there is the question of what is happiness and how can we objectively and empirically qualify it. So the entire question could be moot.
You can swap that for any condition and any requirement of a substance, or even a requirement not to consume a substance. I personally feel like all your question does is invalidate the use of often needed medications, treatments, or other potentially stigmatized practices by people who need those things.
If I had depression, or anxiety, and someone was basically asking if I can ever be the same as others because I need medication, I think that would hit me incredibly hard. It doesn't feel like accepting or supportive language to me.
Your diabetes/insulin example is even more interesting than mine. As a person of color with higher risk of diabetes, I have family members who are diabetic and need insulin. Would I consider my diabetic family members healthy? Do they consider themselves to be healthy? If they were healthy, they wouldn't be diabetic or need insulin. But taking insulin makes them healthy. But then if they were healthy, they wouldn't need insulin, which they do. You really gave me something to think about and maybe even talk to my family members about. Thanks.
Even more, if there is a pill to cure diabetes, is a person who takes the pill more healthy than the person taking insulin?
It could be that the antidepressants are working. Or it could be that people over 40 have had enough time to accept that they have an issue that needs treatment. Or it could be that this subset of unhappy people is real but other trends outweigh it.
39 - Silicon Valley salary, comfortable savings, six digits kids college account. Fun job, lots of respect for OSS contributions, great food, biking, fitness, luxury car. On top of that - coming home every day to kids who agree to play any online game I want! Main source of anxiety - aging parents living in a far-away country...
- lands a stable engineering job in a new factory in a small town right out of university
- housing not an issue, a big apartment close to the factory is provided by the enterprise
- has two kids with free health and child-care (zero street crime, drug usage unheard of)
- the authorities help mom find a job as a teacher in close proximity
- no fancy food, cars or clothing, but still, no big shortages, either
Free housing, international travel, crazy paid leave. 8 healthy successful children, no one starved.
I can't imagine being able to support more than 2 kids ever, without somehow becoming super-successful through sheer luck.
Just taking a guess here but if you happened to be 25 with enough money to retire for life, you would have an even higher happiness rating since you achieved financial independence with your whole life ahead of you.
I'm almost done with my 30s and I don't feel that much different than my 20s. If anything I cared less about things as a teenager. As you get older you tend to have more things to think and worry about.
1. I make a lot more money now so I'm financially stable
2. I've transitioned to a career that is rewarding
3. I don't have as many existential fears/anxieties
4. I have the drive and discipline to do what I need to do
Not everyone experiences these, and I'd imagine that without them, my 30's would be far worse than my 20's.
But for me, health issues started to appear in my late 30s and also I felt reaching 40 years old that my energy is depleted. Also I am actually less relaxed especially working in IT because I am starting to feel like a dinosaur (I still do software development). It might sound pessimistic but I think my best years are behind me.
I switched to a plant based diet a few years ago and that feels like it rewound the clock physically about ten years. It takes a bit of effort but the payoff has been massive.
I'm financially healthier, my job is better, I'm physically in MUCH better shape at 49 than I was at 40 (like, 60 pounds lighter?), and have a better sense of myself.
I feel 'mature' and at peace, now, and sometimes kick myself for not getting into that state at a younger age.
I still enjoy fulltime-coding, no carpal tunnels yet..30 years at the keyboard. (thanks to a mouse/windows/apple aversion). Sometimes I think I've 'failed' in a positive sort of way, by not being aggressive and going into corporate management. Other times, I wonder why am I still coding, my friends all seem to be managing (but cursing their jobs at the same time).
I especially feel good when I see myself as being reasonably healthy and active. Like others, I am getting to accept and look past the things I won't achieve. Strangely, many things (both technical/conceptual and life-related) seem easily grasped, the more I relax and slow down.
Married, 2 teenager kids, all in excellent physical and mental health, extended family and friends, no mortgage, good savings, own a profitable company, running a small offshoot startup, Angel co-invest in a handful of startups, chair a veteran support charity, and still serve in the military in a limited specialist capacity.
Beyond my family, I tend to swap around with the above with 1-2 of the above list “deep” and the rest of the list “shallow” in terms of my time/attention.
So my life is like my kindle reading list and podcast queue, overflowing and growing faster than I can ever possibly consume it.
Whack-a-mole comes to mind.
But I’m smiling while I’m playing this chaotic game I created for myself.
Happiness is in my life, but so is melancholy.
I’ve climbed some mountains(literally and figuratively), regretfully abandoned a few peaks, but remain focused on the mountains yet to climb while I am still able.
I view happiness as the pursuit of it, journey towards it, and the memorable idiosyncrasies of life discovered along the way, rather than the temporary arrival at a destination called happiness.
So journey over destination.
Live is easy before 40. It gets hard quick after that. :-/
30's it gets serious, 40's hard.
Im currently in top 5% earning in my country and i still cant afford a good house and the same quality of life level as my parents..
Dont wanna even think about the majority. Those peoole will be living in dept or month to month till the last day of their lifes.
Maybe that's how my brain works, but I always found "1 to 10" scales utterly stupid. Unless you have super clear criteria for each level. I always favor "1 to 5" scales for this reason. Way easier for me to reason in terms of "terrible, bad, ok, good, awesome".
I had typed out a long paragraph about why I'm less stressed, but I realized the tl;dr is - I figured out what matters to me, and, more importantly, what doesn't. When you figure out what's NOT important, it's like a big weight being off your shoulders.
That and probably decreasing testosterone levels ;)
When I was younger, I was always stressed about how I would pay the bills. When layoffs would go around I would be super stressed , worrying about what if it happens to me. I'd also be stuck dealing with some asshole boss because I needed the money again causing more stress.
Right now there is a rumor going around that my company is not doing too well financially. In the past I would have been worried about it. Now my only thought is if I do get laid off, is where I do some traveling to. If it is during the summer, think I'll go spend some time in the Canadian Rockies. If during the winter, I'll go back to Australia.
Long-term disability insurance and life insurance are nice to have too. Patio11 has been preaching this [1] but it took me a while to really get it. The technical detail of "own occupation" is really important here.
When I was laid off last year I did have the option to continue the disability insurance, but it was a bit more expensive that what I was paying as an employee. IIRC it went from $50/month to $100/month.
What is nice is that my new employer picks up the tab 100%, but it is only 60%. Usually in the past I would pay a bit extra to get 75%, but that is not an option.
I've never thought about private disability insurance before, but it is something that I should look into.
parents are getting really old, kids are still teenagers, jobs are not as secure anymore, physical condition is starting to show its age.
whatever it is, just live with a good mood, everyday could be a better day, no matter how old that is.
I’m surprised that “women in their 20s” happiness level is so low. I always thought of that demographic as living life on “easy mode”. They are highly educated compared to average, still have their health, energy, and looks, and without as much pressure to do the career thing as similarly aged men. Maybe just showing my own biases.
This is a really interesting series that I've been getting into. John Varvaeke is seriously underrated on YouTube and this series about awakening from the meaning crisis explains a lot about how modern society is focusing on the wrong things. Highly recommended!
I see successful guys answering in a “look at me how great I am” style. FU
But the unhappy ones - they will grump at you.
But all the happy people I know have a deep appreciation for the little things in life, a gratitude for whatever good comes their way, no matter how slim it is. In that respect, they are optimizing for allowing all bits of happiness that comes their way to actually have an effect on them.
As a result, our current society is much more atomised and the feeling of connectedness is lost to a large degree. In the past people looked at happiness as a way to exist in a group, now it's everyone's own game of "finding truth and happiness" (often at the cost of screwing up others, even people from your family).
After the transformation of 1989, which in Poland was performed by the government in the form of the "shock therapy" (their term), lots of inequality appeared almost right away. Some people did well, some were barely getting by, and some lost their livelihood and were in very bad shape. The community atmosphere of the building vanished, it started to become vandalized or occupied by drunkards/homeless. Ties between families have loosened, the "connections" became unnecessary as the material needs were now efficiently satisfied by the market forces and basic capitalism. The building is now just a bunch of people that share the same roof, but otherwise don't want to have anything to do with each other (as is standard in other capitalist countries).
I've seen some science headlines that sound like that's the case, but I haven't read the papers so take it with a dumptruck full of salt.
Furthermore, there are some tough moral questions you need to answer when creating a living being in this world. It's unfortunate that having kids is the default and there seems to be very little public dialogue about the moral dimensions of it all.
Look at people who do not have one in there elder years. Look at them driving around dogs in buggys, dressing them up like replacement toddlers, look at those faces, tell me that they are truely happy.
In the coldwar days, there where a lot of people who argued in a similar line- club of rome, end of days, and so they went and got a vasectomy. Which you can not easily reverse.
Result: Lots of sad faces, late stage in life. Sometimes logic doesent cut it, and this is one of those moments - dont break the chain of life, daughter/son - is one of this moments.
I dont encourage you to have many kids- one or two should do. But yes, having a navel, that links all the way to the first mamal, and see that history continue, something of one beeing immortal, learning to walk and talk - that is awesome.
I've certainly had the same impressions as you from friends, but most of them would be under 35/40.
Have read the teaser abstract and leading diagrams, and my main curiosity is how the groupings break down granularly: e.g. former-USSR & "Western Europe" are both extremely! internally diverse. Given the averages for both, I wouldn't be surprised if some WE countries are even above 8, and if some former-USSR's are lower again.
* India, US and China are also internally diverse, but at least are each individual countries.
47 and paid off mortgage this week. Zero debt and have 1 kids college saved up in cash, and low 7 figure retirement savings.
Still need a job for other kids college and medical insurance. I’ll keep working at my employer until I drop dead, as I like the technical work, but I’m on the 3 day plan now. 3 bad days in a row and I’m gone, and I made them aware of that.
That seems like an extremely fragile and precarious situation to put your employer into! No one likes ultimatums, it could hasten your termination.
Yes, that’s part of the happiness; me not giving a shit. An employers ideal engineer is someone young with kids and a fat mortgage.
A financially independent graybeard with loads of institutional and domain knowledge; they have less control.
My employer has participated in stack ranking and walked out 25 year employees with 5 minutes notice. 3 days is my being generous.
The point is to have enough saved up that you don't care. There is nothing more comfortable than the knowledge that you don't have to put up with BS from your employer, or for that matter from _any_ employer, one second longer than you feel like it.
And note that arranged marriage is the norm over in India (thus explaining the inverse trend?).
This is a valid AI problem i think.