People accuse us of all kinds of shit we don't do, but I would have expected something better from you than that last statement. A lot better.
People accuse us of all kinds of shit we don't do, but I would have expected something better from you than that last statement. A lot better.
Anti-Semitism is common, and only the worst gets flagged and downvoted.
Sexism is out of control.
And you know - you know - how toxic HN can be for some users. There's no way I can recommend HN to my friends because some of it is so toxic.
But I will stop, since I don't want to be banned, and if you can't see the rot as well then I suppose mentioning it is pointless and counterproductive.
Maybe I am too, to an extent, but definitely you, and whoever vouched for your comments.
All of lightedman's comments here are terrible, and they're just threatening to dox you here like some angsty edgelord, which is absolutely not acceptable. It deserves to be flagged, as does my response, to be honest. I shouldn't have fallen for the bait.
But still, anyone else would likely lose their vouching privileges for that.
Edit: oh and there's another reason. It sometimes seems to happen that a user like this is surprised to see that we've treated them more kindly than they expected, and they reform their ways and become good contributors. I'm not saying it happens often, but it's worth giving it a shot.
No, all of my comments regarding HN are terrible - to you.
Sadly, they echo many others. And they, too, have reason.
Pure fact: Shadowbanning is 100% cowardice. It is lazy. It requires zero effort. And all that does is further reinforce our view that the moderation staff is bull-headed, piggish, and outright stupid.
The rest of my comments, in technical threads, are fucking spot-on when it comes to my topics. But those don't get seen, as well as all the other help I've tried to provide by answering questions that people ask here - IN SPITE OF the moderators hiding useful comments AND ONLY UNKILLING THE BAD ONES.
That last statement happened[0], you were there. I didn't make it up for shock value. A member of this community in good standing but with a long history of belligerent and crypto-racist behavior (as well as high quality comments) managed to falter while toeing the line of civility.
And you banned him, and rightly so, but his beliefs are not an anomaly. There's a reason he felt comfortable voicing such an opinion here.
I'm not making any accusations towards the moderators, you don't see everything, you said so in that thread. But there is apparently a lot you don't see, if people's concerns about the toxicity in recent threads lead to a thread like this and your only reaction to it is to swipe at me for being rude.
And I was. And I was flagged. Fair game.
But I'm not wrong, and I'm far from the only one who's noticed that there are problems here which civility alone will not solve. People can be perfectly civil while poisoning a well.
It's interesting, also, that you've had to reach for an example from 2-1/2 years ago. Nearly 7M posts have appeared on HN since then. That suggests that this community and its moderators are not as you say.
It's impossible to operate a large, anonymous public internet forum where no horrible comments appear. Demanding the impossible is not helpful. Armchair snark about how moderators fail to achieve the impossible may feel like a harmless internet pleasure, but consider the impact it has on the people you're attacking here. This place is fragile. The people who run it are under intense, unrelenting pressure. Kicking us in the gut is not a great idea if you don't want to make HN worse.
We can't control what people post, since anyone we've banned can just create a new account (and many do). All we can do is react to what gets posted. If there's some obvious thing we can do to dramatically clean up the site that we're not currently doing, I'd love to hear about it. But when you say that HN is no better than the worst of the internet except for the un-merit of a scum of politeness, I feel like you're trivializing the problems we face. Nor can I take that seriously, because it's patently untrue. If HN is no better than that, our hard work is useless—is that really what you mean to argue? And do you really mean to slag people who are trying hard to prevent a site you've been using daily for years (and for free) from degenerating into sludge? Because that's how your comment lands with me, and when we get that from experienced HN users, it makes me want to throw in the towel.
Nobody said civility would solve everything. It is a necessary condition, not a sufficient one. Incidentally, I've been thinking for the last few months that we should take that word out of the site guidelines. Its only visible effect seems to be that people get to accuse us of having that dumb idea about civility. There are deeper words we could use, which I would be happier to be associated with.
I'm sick of seeing what should be perfectly good threads be pulled down into the cesspool because of bigotry and trolling, and lately there seems to be a lot of it. You're by no means the only person who has gotten frustrated by this place. Sometimes I want to lash out because this place makes me angry. That's probably a sign that I spend far too much time here.
I'm not blaming the mods for anything - as I said in my previous comment. I never meant to imply that I thought your efforts were useless or futile. I know what a thankless task moderation can be.
You seem to be in that mode that other posters get into where anything I say is probably going to be interpreted as a personal insult, cherry-picked or semantically twisted against me, so since I can't win for losing anyway -- yes, the worst of HN is no better than a more polite version of the worst of 4chan, and, despite itself, the best of HN is often not the best of the internet. That shouldn't be a surprise, given how much overlap there is in membership between here and other sites, and how diverse peoples' beliefs can be about what constitutes good discussion.
The high bar is not getting higher, but the low bar does seem to be getting lower. I don't know what the solution is, but there is a problem.
For me, the most significant word in my comment was pressure. I'm sure I was partly reacting out of that. It's not yet possible not to.