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Comment by carmate383 | Hacker News Reader

Except that PHP does have a REPL, and using PHP_EOL is hardly a big deal. PHP induces an undeserved gag-reflex for most Ruby / Python / JS devs because they read some "why php sucks" post on someone's blog ten years ago, but really the language is quite modern now (not to mention faster).

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The fundamentals of why PHP is disliked have not changed. It is still covered in annoying problems, though there have been substantial improvements in some areas. It's less painful, but it's still the infamous PHP.

I thought PHP was disliked because its flexibility can lead to horrible code if it's used without discipline, and for a long time its default settings were completely insecure?

I don't recall hearing any serious criticism claiming that it was hard to get things done with (unless you count security).

there are some design decisions, in the core language, that cause pervasive weirdness that’s hard to code around. It’s worse that “too permissive” - it’s like there are bad defaults that you have to constantly fight against

Some examples? I can't think of any.

At least PHP doesn't have the whole Python 2 vs. Python 3 fiasco. And a gazillion different ways to package and install dependencies. Don't get me wrong, I love Python but every language has its warts.

True, PHP never made a clean break with its legacy, unlike Python. That’s not positive.

PHP consistently deprecates old features at a steady, manageable pace while introducing new features and performance enhancements.

> PHP consistently deprecates old features at a steady, manageable pace

Manageable is subjective. There's no evidence that it's "just right" or even "timely". Major API cleanup would be appropriate for php 8 but there's still too many people clinging to the idea that PHP would be damaged because someone can't look up how to solve PHP problems with specific versions (ie are stuck in the late 90s).

There's so much that could be done in one fell swoop, the steering council of neckbeards (PHP neckbeards are as bad as it sounds) are responsible for the stunted development of the language. To suggest they are the progressive face of PHP is, at best, revisionist.

Steady might mean too slow, but there's no 2/3 schism.

There's plenty of features in the docs that say at the top "deprecated in x, removed in y, see also alternative z", so I'm unsure of what problem you're referring to.

What would a major API cleanup actually give except for major breakage?

How about PHP 6? not a fiasco?

They canceled a major break in BC that they weren't sure would have been a good idea and then came out with one of the best releases in PHP history, so kind of the opposite of a fiasco.

I honestly tried to come back to PHP after most of a decade in ruby. I couldn’t find a decent ORM! And after trying to write one, I think I see why.

We ended up rewriting the entire product in Python.

There are tons of ORMs for PHP. Of course, I find ORMs in the end, just get the way of getting the most from a DB and SQL isn't that hard for most things.

I determined there’s no point in an ORM... just write logical code using an SQL wrapper like PDO.

Why not Ruby if you'd just spent a decade with it?

Sometimes preference doesn't match project choice?

I’ve never read a blog post about why PHP sucks. I wrote PHP for many years and it wasn’t that bad but compared to the alternatives I would never go back. Also tormented by all of the Wordpress plugins and template hacks that I got paid to write over the years. Yuck, no thanks I don’t want to do that anymore.

So, you hated the _work you did with PHP_, not really the language.

I never said I hated the language but I do think almost every other alternative language I’ve used since doing full time PHP has been a better experience.

...or they're like me. I spent over a decade making a living on PHP and now it gives me major P(HP)TSD. I'd have to be REALLY desperate to consider a job that involved PHP.

Conjecture: Anyone that spends over ten years making a living writing the same programming language will have major P(LANGUAGE)-TSD. I feel like the deeper concern is more a psychological fear of moving your career in a backwards direction. PHP just happened to be a part of that.

I'm not sure... I've spent six years with C# and I still love the heck out of the language. I keep learning new things about it, too! Most recently, stackalloc and unsafe blocks. I've burned out on other, less comfortable languages though.

I think it's more from being forced to use some framework you didn't like for too long.

I've done PHP for more than 10 years and got no problem using it if I have to.

OTOH, I don't want to touch stuff like rails because I don't like it being in the way but love Ruby.

I'd prefer TypeScript these days though.

It seems you don't know what REPL means. The P is print, and "PHP -a" doesn't do that.

That's true about a few languages actually. Javascript being one, C++ being another.

(Last comment didn't post??) To be fair js gets the same bad rap.

that's because it still has global variables.

Many users = more vocal minorities and elitist who can't help but bash mass adopted products

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