BlackBerry cofounder Jim Balsillie is sounding the alarm about surveillance
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Stratchery published a beautiful, irreverent proposal earlier this week to address this very challenge through a regulatory framework that actually feels like it could work and I encourage all HN users to absorb:
https://stratechery.com/2019/a-regulatory-framework-for-the-...
The article does a good job of explaining why YouTube and Facebook don't currently do a good job of currating content, or whether that should even be their responsibility. It's not about machine learning, it's about price incentives.
An advertising company would always want to get more and more infos about the users that it sees as "resources" instead of customers. A content providing company would be forced to treat its users as actual customers and respect their rights at least a bit, and would push back against the advertising company asking for more surveillance data.
Now, unfortunately this can't actually work because the more an advertising company makes, the more it can afford to pay the content creators/channels/providers, and everyone just wants more $.
But if anyone has any idea how to make it work, do share!
I think the core problem is that under our current model of free-market capitalism, there really is no way to constrain what companies like Google and Facebook are doing. You can add on some additional privacy protections like Europe does, but it only goes so far, since the core model of these companies is to make products that people want and give them away in exchange for data. Google and the like will continue to get the data they want because people will keep giving it to them voluntarily.
Me personally, I don't want to give up my free gmail, or my free maps app. I was on a trip in Japan and Google Translate works amazingly well. Way better than a few years ago, and also free.
Even if I am uncomfortable with some of Google's practices, I'm not going to stop using their products.
The controversy evolves around opinionated content where group A sees a problem with group B having a certain opinion heard.
We need to think about extreme cases. Take for example a political party for pedophiles. You can rest assured any free market player will be laser focused as soon as such content shows up on their platform. Reputations are at stake. Many will execute their freedom to have such content removed. They don't need to provide a reason.
Now with a regulatory system it becomes a different story. There is no way to define a set of rules that prevents people from advocating pedophilia without sacrificing freedom of speech.
I disagree. The problem is just that people interpret "freedom of speech" as "I'm free to say whatever I want [period]". There are some limits however, that most fail to recognize. One of them which is both the letter and the spirit of freedom of speech ever since its first proclamation: the speaker shall be responsible for any abuse as defined by law. Being allowed to speak freely doesn't absolve you of supporting the consequences.
This is why you can speak state secrets or instigate violence against refugees but will be prosecuted (there are corner cases as in every other legal area).
In your example you are perfectly free to support that case. There's no actual "censorship office" to physically close your mouth while you do it. You may even escape any kind of legal prosecution. But in the court of public opinion you will not fare well.
> In your example you are perfectly free to support that case. There's no actual "censorship office".
So without regulation the content platforms are free to make up their own rules and remove any content they consider unsuitable for their audience.
In the article a regulatory framework is proposed for ad supported platforms. The responsibility is taken away from the platform. You now have a situation where the regulatory entity will either need to allow people advocating for things like pedophilia or other "uncomfortable things" or otherwise introduces censorship for it. It's a double edged sword.
So the hypothetical pro-terrorism or pro child abuse article would go up because it’s not censored, it would catch traction because it enjoys the support of some, it would then be taken down because the laws prohibit such speech in general, and finally the original poster suffers the consequences of breaking the law.
Censorship is done before the fact. Like banning a song before launch because it’s insulting the supreme leader. Doing it after the fact because it violates a law (TBH I presume there’s a law prohibiting the promotion of pedophilia or terrorism...) is not censorship.
They failed to read the winds of change that saw Bring Your Own Device come to the workplace and thought they were safe with enterprise and government users.
I can resonate with this. I worked for a major bank developing their blackberry app. It was amazingly painful to develop on their platform, its a literal mess.
If that was his vision at work, then I'm not surprised it failed. Monetized bbm was/is a spammy, irritating mess.
a) Price dumping and giving out a free OS to Chinese OEM's.
b) Making a "luxury" product to differentiate against Chinese OEM's.
Neither of these two paths was open to Blackberry. Sorry.
[1]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-blackberry-saudi/rim-to-s...
> Sidewalk’s proposal is peppered with phrases like “comprehensive data collection,” “an enormous amount of data,” and “fine-grained data.” The data it desires runs from environmental (localized weather conditions, noise levels, and pollution) to social ( everyday actions that paint a detailed picture of what residents are doing and when ).
It looks like Google's vision for the modern city is to turn it into the Sims where Google can peer into everything. If you want to live in that world be my guest, but he's absolutely right. This is not something which is good in many ways. Where Google is monitoring everyone all the time. I mean even in Star Trek the computer isn't monitoring everyone all the time.... if it were then many plots could be resolved with the surveillance log on everyone's actions.
It is relevant to the discussion to point out Jim Balsillie's relation to this topic. It's not a refutation of the point being made though. It's entirely possible that he has ulterior motives for making this argument that aren't based on it being morally (or event factually) correct, but it may be correct (or incorrect) separately from that.
Personally, I would classify these objections about Balsillie's arguments as ad hominem attacks. If the point he makes is logically coherent, what does his personal motivation it matter?
Here the concept has been extended to large multinational corporate relations.
or experience and an authoritative source on the peril?
From everything I read and know about RIM, the enterprise level BlackBerry systems were unbreakable to governments and the keys were generated and controlled entirely by the customers (not by RIM). The pissed-off governments demanded access and threatened to ban RIM--the market leader at the time. I think the first to demand access was India and RIM put up a years-long fight against them before they capitulated.
It's easy to say that they should have taken a principled stand and lost the market. (In a similar vein, RIM had to pay a slimy patent troll $612.5 million dollars [not a typo, more than half a billion!] by a certain deadline otherwise the judge in the case would have banned them from the entire US market until they had a trial. The patents in question were ludicrously obvious and should never have been granted. I'd like to have seen RIM take a stand and fight the troll, but I can forgive them for having chosen not to go bankrupt.)
At the other extreme of corporate misconduct, are you aware that AT&T has been giving the call records (meta data) of every person in the United States to the NSA for decades? If Snowden's info is correct, they even allowed live tapping into phone calls for every phone call that passed through their network.
Furthermore, here's a quote from the article you linked to: "RIM, unlike rivals Nokia and Apple, operates its own network through secure servers located in Canada and other countries such as Britain." I have a high degree of respect for Apple (and somewhat for Nokia), but isn't it odd that RIM was being targeted by the host country but Nokia and Apple weren't? Perhaps they had a way to monitor communications (or at least get meta data) on Nokia and Apple phones, but they couldn't monitor RIM because RIM maintained its servers outside of the country.
In summary, cut some slack on RIM. RIM did use good encryption and did put up a fight. Many other companies have done and are doing much much worse.
So I agree with you fully, but I also do not have to cut them any slack as what they did was shitty.
Also, please have an upvote.
And if there must be central servers, they should also have anonymized addresses, and the owners and admins should be anonymous. Adversaries can't coerce people, if they can't identify or locate them. Even so, having central servers is a weakness to be avoided.
Just as with RIM:
> RIM, unlike rivals Nokia and Apple, operates its own network through secure servers located in Canada and other countries such as Britain.
Those were not secure servers. Because RIM was coerced into compromising them.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mg77vv/rcmp-black...
I was talking about enterprise BlackBerry systems being unbreakable to governments. That story does not contract this. However, it's saddening to hear that RIM apparently coughed up the keys for consumer BlackBerrys even though it didn't face an existential threat. If they had refused, I doubt that they would have been banned in Canada, being their home turf and a darling of the Canadian industry at the time.
For consumer services the story is very different.
From this story: "Facebook had been caught designing algorithms to identify stressed, overwhelmed, and anxious teenagers on its network, presumably to assist advertisers who might want to target them"
From NYTimes story last November https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/technology/facebook-data-...
"But it wasn’t the looming disaster at Facebook that angered Ms. Sandberg. It was the social network’s security chief, Alex Stamos, who had informed company board members the day before that Facebook had yet to contain the Russian infestation……….She appeared to regard the admission as a betrayal.....“You threw us under the bus!” she yelled at Mr. Stamos………………Ms. Sandberg has overseen an aggressive lobbying campaign to combat Facebook’s critics, shift public anger toward rival companies and ward off damaging regulation. Facebook employed a Republican opposition-research firm to discredit activist protesters, in part by linking them to the liberal financier George Soros. It also tapped its business relationships, lobbying a Jewish civil rights group to cast some criticism of the company as anti-Semitic"
Short of Apple and ( theoriginal) WhatsApp, I don't there was/is another major company that took encryption between devices as serious as RIM did: getting on the podium with bronze is not a bad accomplishment.
We can also thank them for helping move the ball forward with ECC encryption. They were taking crypto seriously before Apple and others even were in the game.
The fact that they didn't manage to get things perfect, or implement what we now call end-to-end encryption, shouldn't diminish the positive things they did.
as an aside I'm wondering when the the last nail in the coffin is going to laid for one of these big tech services. and how are these huge tech companies going to respond to this increasing government interference.
I'm sort of waiting for one of the big five to go full early-airbnb or Uber and just start circumventing. a part of me would find this big tech versus big government civil war out in the open pretty funny.
plus big tech being distracted and hammered by government would provide more opportunities for startups.