Show HN: Weight Lifting Algorithm Based on 5M Workouts
getfitnessai.com
getfitnessai.com
(stands for anyone from HN)
Since traffic from HN is essentially free I have no problem with an extended trial period :)
It's fair game in my book to use the tools Apple provides us as developers to monetize our apps. Other apps offering subscriptions do so in the same way... it's why Apple provides us the ability to even offer free trials.
I'm sorry you disagree, but this is common business practice.
edit: typo
In the same app that he's reluctant to sign up for in the first place because of the predatory trial.
Here’s what it looks like you did;
Made a weight lifting logging app and charged a monthly subscription for it.
Used your users data to create an algorithm that culled the routine of your best performers, most likely defined by heaviest weight lifted.
Claimed that by following your algorithm your users could 2x the results of trainers; trainers here is defined as “people who train,” And not “people who are paid to train others.”
Cited 60 days as a window of success.
All of this, if it is as it appears, is massively misleading in an industry already known for snake oil.
Have you compensated for your users that had big numbers but approached it in an unhealthy way? For instance, how many of your user’s deadlift high numbers resulted in a hernias?
Additionally you say you have engineers and scientists working on hacking human performance. What about strength and conditioning coaches? What about athletes?
In this post, he says he's a 1 man shop.
I created an algorithm that trains you based on how top performers on Lift Log train themselves.
Top performers = highest percent change in total volume lifted from day 1. Sure, 60 days isn't a ton of data, but it is enough to show a difference.
Most people don't train properly and don't increase the difficulty of their exercises between workouts — following FitnessAI's algorithm (although it is incredibly naive) does indeed result in the performance boosts claimed. Try it out!
Regarding comparing to trainers — these are real trainers. I identified many trainers using lift log (on their clients phone) to keep track of training sessions.
I'm not so comfortable with that. Can you tell us more?
The main value is that it not only tells you what exercises to do, but also how much more to lift each day to ensure steady growth. They are designed by well-informed people with a lot of experience in the field. However, there are some major flaws (e.g Most are just linear increases, they don't handle plateaus/failures well, they aren't personalized, exercises don't change, and the UI is pretty bad).
There's a lot of potential in something like fitnessai to address these issues. Obviously, it's not going to do everything for you and won't replace your own research and experimentation, but I can see it being super valuable as a tool in the gym.
@jakemor the app looks dope. Listen to your customers and keep building it out. The majority of HN may not your ideal customer but don't let that deter you.
This is a terrible cliche. (More: https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/So_simple,_your_mother_c...)
How about something like:
* Your lifts should be hard, your tracking should be effortless. Record your set with a single tap and spend your rest recovering for the next (...or taking selfies, we don't judge).
This tells people exactly what the value is and tells the that the user that they deserve FitnessAI.
PS: Sorry for Facebook and sorry for really awful music. Hit mute first.
After collecting an insane amount of data with my app Lift Log, I decided to design an algorithm that optimizes for accelerated muscle growth over a short period of time.
It currently outperform human trainers by 1-2x in the first 60 days of training, using a very simple algorithm. The opportunity to change how people, athletes, and soldiers train is huge.
We're cashflow positive, raised a small seed, and are hiring data scientists & engineers in NYC to hack the human body for efficiency.
Hope to answer any questions you may have!
In analyzing people's percent change in total volume lifted over 60 days on FitnessAI vs users on Lift Log (a basic weightlifting journal app)
App looks pretty cool either way - will check it out.
How do you define volume? Total reps per workout? Total reps x total weight per workout?
Also I know that everyone does it, but the “free trial but we’ll charge you even if you don’t use the app and just forgot to cancel” is something that I really dislike. Maybe it’s an AppStore limitation but I rather do a trial and only pay if I actually use it, not if I forgot to cancel.
Lastly, maybe it’s after the paywall, but not everyone knows what all the routine names mean, if I have to google it, it’s something I expect the app to include. (A diagram / video of how to do it the right way)
Other than that, looks exciting and a really nice take on this topic.
You can modify the routine but not based on available equipment and we have full step by step instructions along with videos for each exercise
Regarding the subscription thing — that's an app store limitation
How do you qualify the "trainers," that your algorithm outperformed? Most basic strength and conditioning books will outperform the average chain gym trainer.
How many of your the trainers in your sample size were Strength and Conditioning Coaches at reputable performance gyms? Would any qualify under the following statement from the National Strength and Conditioning Association's Website:
"The proper education consists of an undergraduate degree in an exercise science-related field. Such a degree is imperative because it forms the foundation of knowledge that underpins the profession. An exercise science-related degree affords the capability to practice an evidence-based approach to strength and conditioning."
What are your results for longer than 60 days? Do you continue to outperform human trainers at the 1 yr and 5 yr marks? For those that are uninitiated, 60 days is a incredibly short time in the world of Strength and Conditioning. Doing almost anything differently that your normal routine, consistently, over 3 months will yield positive results before plateaus set in.
How are you quantifying your results?
Are you raising the 1 rep maxes of your athletes 1-2x than more than Human Trainer? Their 10 rep max? Their max broad jump? Their 40 yard dash? Their 1 mile time? Their muscle mass? Lowering their Body fat percentage?
I want this to work. I crave a simple logging app that will allow me to enter a variety of exercises and an AI that would help with programming would be huge. I would be willing to you pay your subscription of $8 a month if it were true.
Trainers use Lift Log to keep track of their clients workouts during training sessions. They were identified and their data was compared
>> How many of your the trainers in your sample size were Strength and Conditioning Coaches at reputable performance gyms? Would any qualify under the following statement from the National Strength and Conditioning Association's Website:
"The proper education consists of an undergraduate degree in an exercise science-related field. Such a degree is imperative because it forms the foundation of knowledge that underpins the profession. An exercise science-related degree affords the capability to practice an evidence-based approach to strength and conditioning."
Not sure! but they worked at or owned their own gyms so I'm sure they are certified. Only trainers who trained using the same exercises as FitnessAI were compared
>> What are your results for longer than 60 days? Do you continue to outperform human trainers at the 1 yr and 5 yr marks? For those that are uninitiated, 60 days is a incredibly short time in the world of Strength and Conditioning. Doing almost anything differently that your normal routine, consistently, over 3 months will yield positive results before plateaus set in.
I'm not sure! We've only been around for a few months so it's hard to say. That said, we have the data and users to optimize for this once users begin to plateau
>> How are you quantifying your results? Are you raising the 1 rep maxes of your athletes 1-2x than more than Human Trainer? Their 10 rep max? Their max broad jump? Their 40 yard dash? Their 1 mile time? Their muscle mass? Lowering their Body fat percentage?
% change in total volume lifter
>> I want this to work. I crave a simple logging app that will allow me to enter a variety of exercises and an AI that would help with programming would be huge. I would be willing to you pay your subscription of $8 a month if it were true.
try it out! And message me in app for a free 30 days
Your methodology doesn't disqualify anybody who could have started with incredible small lifts and then added higher lifts at the end of 60 days. That would not reflect actual development.
Most importantly, I am aware of how to do steady slate programming, which seems to be what your App is selling. I have access to spreadsheets and the ability to program by percentages, as do most people.
Your app would be 100x better if I simply were able to input my One Rep Maxes and then have it spit out a 3 month plan of 5x5 training starting around 70% of my max increasing my loads by 5% a week, with a deload week every 4-6 weeks. Perhaps adding in weeks with 3x5, and 3x3 as it gets near max. However, as you likely know, no one is going to pay monthly for that.
Instead, you have packaged common knowledge as AI. You have taken data from users (that you charged a monthly subscription) that are not qualified to give educated information, failed to qualify which of them were experts, and are attempting to pass it off as some sort of hive learning. For that you want $8 a month (AND their data, to be used for who knows what in the future) from people who are looking to better themselves.
There are thousands happy users who are seeing real results, I don't know what else to say.
Please don't forget that the average user doesn't know how to lift weights, and doesn't want to pay $50-150/training session. FitnessAI offers a real alternative.
>> Your app would be 100x better if I simply were able to input my One Rep Maxes and then have it spit out a 3 month plan of 5x5 training starting around 70% of my max increasing my loads by 5% a week, with a deload week every 4-6 weeks. Perhaps adding in weeks with 3x5, and 3x3 as it gets near max. However, as you likely know, no one is going to pay monthly for that.
FitnessAI basically does a variation of this, but it's informed by data rather than being anecdotal
Your app does not invent a new way to program working out. Your app reflects proof that science we already know about has results that have already been proven to be true. And you charge people monthly for this.
Good luck in your fitness endeavors :)
Do any compound movement with as much weight as you can manage for a set of 5. Do a couple more sets. Add 10 pounds to the bar every subsequent workout until failure. Then add 5 pounds to the bar every workout subsequent to that.
That'll get most healthy young people through the first 8 weeks of training. Train two or three times a week and you'll add 80-100 pounds to every lift.
The caveat being that small people will run out of linear gains in their upper body during that time.
The app basically does this very systematically. Give it a shot! It's simple and effective
What's missing is how well your app works with people that are reasonably well-adapted?
You're also analyzing increases in volume, whereas most people will be interested in increasing 1RM strength. Volume is obviously a key component of this, but volume as a metric is also tricky. The number of challenging sets is likely a better indicator of training stress and a driver of muscle growth.
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/can-we-predict-muscle-grow...
For instance, it's trivial to increase total volume by performing high reps of a light weight over a long period of time. I can spend all day lifting 35% of my 1RM, accumulate astronomical volume, but see little to no training benefit.
I also take issue with your claim that your algorithm 'optimizes for accelerated muscle growth', yet it does not appear you have measured muscle growth at all. It's an absurd claim to make; you've optimized for a setsXrepsXweight volume metric. This is perhaps a semantic issue, but deceptive nonetheless.
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I imagine that the app results in reasonable programming, and it may even be effective, but you have a long way to go before claiming any kind of empirical validation.
Fitness magazines assert they can get me bigger, faster in every month's issue. It's a big industry.
Perhaps you can post a bit more on the Blog to establish credibility.
Working on blog posts too
(Of course, for professional bodybuilders the decision may be at a different point)
IMO, Give this a try jakemor said in the comments he’ll give a free month to anyone on HN
Do you walk? If you don't, start there.
A study of sedentary, overweight men and women (aged 40 to 65 years) showed they lost body fat and weight when they walked or ran 12 miles a week during an 8-month study, without changing their diet. A control group of non-exercisers all gained weight and fat during the 8-month study."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
Do you sit at a desk a lot? You probably have poor posture associated with it. Do any yoga, at all. Literally any program.
Here's one from my favorite online yogi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAUf7aajBWE
Do you want to lift weights? For $8, one time, you can order Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. - https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-Basic-Barbell-Train...
This book will teach you how to lift the weights, as well as how to program the lifts, which is twice as much as this app is claiming to do. At 1/12th the price for the first year, 1/24th the second, and 1/36th the third, etc..
Definitely give something a try, but I see no compelling reason to pay for this when there are a variety of high-quality free programs out there.
The importance of 'fitness programming' per se is massively inflated online; you'll absolutely need some structure to achieve high performance, but 'the usual software engineer physical stereotype' basically can't help but make progress if they're actually doing physical activity. You could do some of the most bone-headed things imaginable and you wouldn't be wasting your time.
If you're looking for tracking apps or something to do the 'thinking' for you, there are literally dozens of good options.
It's important to note that this will be a process and anyone trying to sell you a shortcut is full of shit. Including the guy who made this thread. Cool idea, but misleading as shit.
Here we go.
1. Your diet will fuel your growth way more than any workout routine generated by a man, woman, alien, genderless entity, or artificial intelligence ever will.
To put it simply, if you want to pack on muscle? Weight train and eat eat more calories than you burn. ~300-500 more calories.
If you want to lose weight? Weight train and/or cardio. Eat less calories than you burn. ~300-500 less calories.
You can find many TDEE calculators online. I like to use the calculator over at iifym.com.
For example:
If I want to gain weight and my body burns around 2000 calories per day, then I should probably eat 2300-2500 calories, with my protein intake being around 0.7g/lb of body weight.
If I want to lose weight and my body burns around then maybe I should eat around 1500-1700 calories, with my protein intake being around 0.7g/lb of body weight.
That's it. It's a numbers game. Calories in vs calories out. Your body doesn't give a shit about anything else (assuming you're eating balanced meals to fulfill your vitamin needs. If not, pick up some multivitamin and you'll be fine). The hard part is usually planning the meals and actually getting used to eating a lot. That's going to suck, but it gets easier.
And forget all that shit about supplements. Only thing you truly will find useful is whey protein powders and creatine. Do your own research. You're a smart guy, I bet. You got this.
2. Your routine is secondary to your diet. Remember this shit. Don't forget this shit. Write this shit down. Your routine is secondary to your diet. Aside from that, you need to know what you want to do.
Do you want to be strong as fuck? Find a routine that focuses on strength training.
Do you want to be aesthetic as fuck? Find a routine that focuses on hypertrophy. This will most likely be a program that works each body part twice a week.
No matter what you decide to do, be patient and consistent. Results will come, but never overnight.
Whatever routine you choose to do, focus on progressive overloading aka increase the stress put on your muscles each workout. This could be by increasing the number of sets, reps, or weight. Just do more.
Find a routine. Make sure it has a focus on compound exercises. Find a personal trainer who can actually show you how to lift correctly (should only be a few sessions). Go hard. Be consistent. Don't switch the program until you at least put in 6 months of work or your goals change. Don't be afraid to tweak things to your own liking.
You have the official "Download on the App Store" badge, but it links to a web form that requests my phone number. That's not an acceptable use of Apple's badge, according to their rules on the webpage you downloaded it from.
Using algorithms to optimize my workouts sounds like a good idea in principle, but I see no proof that it works as advertised, and everything else about this app is mildly distasteful.
The download badge links directly to the App Store on iOS; on desktop it lets you send yourself a text with the download link, which is standard behavior for Branch links. Alternatively you can just search FitnessAI in the App Store
I'd suggest giving it a shot before drawing any conclusions. Message me for a free 30 days :)
You can devise a relationship between someone's 1 rep - 12 rep max and adjust for it, check out epleys formula https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-repetition_maximum
at a minimum i wait until my heart rate slows down. i haven't noticed any additional gains for shorter weight times.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/perfect-amount-re...
Why would you deprive a beginner of these benefits?
So, I would deprive them of these benefits because I suspect that they are mild to irrelevant, and because an adult male benching 75lbs 15 times is likely to be bored out of their mind resting 10 minutes between those three sets (for example), for what is probably a trivial-or-non-existent 'edge'.
Shortened rest periods are good for prioritizing growth over strength, i.e. body-building. One can only begin "body-building" after establishing a sufficient base of strength from which to start.
I also think that people are pretty stupid and you will earn a lot of money from it.
However good job !
[1] average: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight
It's actually set to 120 for both kg and lbs — my bad!