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Comment by stavros | Hacker News Reader

Well, it's only good if it's making you money...

Not necessarily. Neither of the sites that have done the most for my quality of life have ever brought in much in the way of direct income. They have, however, put me out there as a guy who's capable of building products like that, which have led to some really good consulting gigs, thus allowing me to keep traveling the world and doing my thing from a laptop.

So even though it was years before I hit on the first product that generated significant income on its own, there was still a net benefit from having put out my shingle right from the start.

They have, however, put me out there as a guy who's capable of building products like that, which have led to some really good consulting gigs, thus allowing me to keep traveling the world and doing my thing from a laptop.

So indirectly it's only good if it's making you money...

I disagree. I spent 3.5 years doing the startup thing. I made effectively no money. Knowing what I know now, I'd do it again in a heartbeat, no questions asked. I learned more and grew up more in that time than in the rest of my life.

How did you afford food/rent if you made no money?

I second that! I'm amazed by the fact that half the time people seem to disregard completely this fundamental obstacle in doing a startup: you need to have at least the basics covered, like food and a roof above your head. You shouldn't live like a king but even the modest living costs.

Is it only people in US who think that? I don't think so, US is not particularly known for social security and such -- maybe this comes from people who either are already wealthy or they live with their parents :)

I have worked for 2 years plus to earn and set aside the money that will allow me 6-7 months of freedom to start something up (well, and then I screwed my hard-earned freedom, but that's another story); with this tempo you'd (I'd) need to slave away 8 years to earn 2 years of freedom, the amount I'd deem necessary to start up something serious and see money coming back to you.

So please, always mention how you have your basic needs covered and for how long before preaching bootstrapping to others :)

If you work a couple of years in a "boring, corporate gig" and watch your spending carefully (i.e. rent a "decent enough" flat, buy a used and "working well enough" car, eating reasonably cheap), you should be able to save enough to support yourself for the same amount of time, in my experience (and I'm on a Spanish salary, considerably less than the equivalent in the US or nordic countries here in EU.)

Of course the whole time you must be prepared to sacrifice bits of your quality of life, before and during the bootstrapping period (hopefully not after).

I really depends on your goals in life.

I'm curious - what do you think is a "typical" salary for software developers, and what do you think are "typical" expenses for someone living in, say, Silicon Valley?

You have to radically reduce your expenses if that is the case.

Are you tracking your monthly expenses? I assume rent is the highest, can you take in a room mate? Move into a smaller place? Sell your car and buy a beater?

I took 3 months off (not for a startup, I went skiing the whole time) for <$4,000. I can save that up in 3 months of working, but I drive a 10 year old car and rent a small apartment while most of the guys I work with are driving $30,000 cars and living in big places. But the car doesn't matter to me nearly as much as the freedom to take time off.

The first year of it was spent living with family, paying the bills via some light contract work. At that point, I wasn't really sure of where I wanted to go startup-wise, so I leaned on them for a bit.

From there, I moved to Atlanta and into the house of a business partner of mine. Initially, he was working fulltime at a day job while I worked on our product. This lasted for about a year and a half before he left that job.

The last year and a half were spent surviving off savings, stocks, about two months of contracting, etc. In the end, the runway ran out, and the house was foreclosed on (kinda happens when you don't pay the mortgage for a few months). We launched our product the day we moved out of there.

It was the most stressful time of my life, the most work I've ever done, and I feel like I aged a decade in that 3.5 years. But it was easily the most amazing time of my life.

I'm now living in Manhattan and working for an awesome company, but I still miss the startup life. I figure I'll end up doing it all over again in a few years, once I come across the right idea and strategy.

>I'm now living in Manhattan and working for an awesome company, but I still miss the startup life.

When I was finishing college I could not WAIT to get outta there -- what between homework, regular work, and just being plain TIRED of school. The day after I got my degree, I said "man I already miss school!"

How did you feel right after you left your "startup life?"

I can't really say for sure, simply because there was no "ok, well, my company is dead" moment -- the company is still going, I'm just not really doing anything. I guess the closest thing was my first day at Matasano, and I was mostly just excited at that point. I miss doing the full-time startup thing, but not so much that I'd jump at the opportunity to do it again right now. I'm sure that I'll get the itch in ~3 years, though.

Family. You can live with your parents, actually nothing wrong about it in many countries. If you eat with them and they have Internet, your living costs are around 0.

Yep.. it's all about being filial in Asia.

It's only sustainable if it's making you money. It's always good, even when it's bad.

It depends on your definition of good, then... It's certainly enjoyable, but if you lost years of your life and have nothing to show for it, I wouldn't consider it a tremendous success. That said, there's nothing I'd want to do more than having a startup.

if you lost years of your life and have nothing to show for it

If you have nothing to show for it, you haven't actually started a startup. You may not get a 7 figure bank balance to show for it, but you'll get something out it. Be it a website you can show off, better anecdotes for job interviews & parties or a network of new friends.

There are things that are far more valuable than money that a person can gain from an experience.

> "if you lost years of your life and have nothing to show for it"

That's kinda how I feel about corporate gigs. You have stuff to show for it, but there comes a time when you realize most stuff doesn't really have lasting value.

And to those who suffer a bad gig to have money to do the things they really love: well, it's funny how little money most of those things really require.

Not always true...

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