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Comment by johnm1019 | Hacker News Reader

This is missing a few important points.

1. The 15% of income has a cap. It's something like after 60k EUR in wages you don't pay anymore. Also, only 7.5% comes out of your paycheck, the employer pays the other half. When I was there a few years ago I was self employed so I had to pay "both sides". It would've worked out to roughly 750EUR/month for health insurance which had _0 deductible_ and _0 coinsurance_ for doctors visits or ER care and would've covered my entire family no matter on my children I had. Compare that with a typical HDHP family plan offered in the US and you're looking at $400/mo in premiums, with a $3k deductible and max OOP of $6k. The final cost is comparable.

2. The 15% is only if you participate in the public system - the private is not tied to your income.

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>> Also, only 7.5% comes out of your paycheck, the employer pays the other half

You might delude yourself that this "other half" is paid by the employer, but in reality your employer takes that cost into account when employing you, so they offer you lower gross salary because of that. In other words: it's still paid by you, just indirectly.

EDIT: more clear wording.

> Also, only 7.5% comes out of your paycheck, the employer pays the other half.

That distinction is imaginary. It all comes out of your total cost for employer, which either goes to you or to (possibly earmarked) taxes.

This doesn't mean the amount is not fair (it very well might be). But it's important to realize it all comes from your paycheck.

> Also, only 7.5% comes out of your paycheck, the employer pays the other half

This just means that paychecks are 7.5% lower then they would otherwise be. It is a mistake to think that the employer paid benefits are "free". The market adjusts. You find that out right quick of you are self-employed (at least in the US).

The difference is that the other 7.5% (plus a few more such line items) don't appear in your progressive tax rate, and they also don't appear in "how much do you earn in country X" comparisons.

In most countries, even the first 7.5% don't apear in your tax rate.

But still, if you count everything together, for a 2keur net paycheck you have to charge your customers 4.8k in my country (slovenia), and the government takes 2.8k (social benefits, pension, health, income tax and VAT). Say what you want, but 4.8k->2k is a huge amount of taxes.

> The 15% of income has a cap. It's something like after 60k EUR in wages you don't pay anymore.

...at which point progressive income tax starts kicking in badly.

> Also, only 7.5% comes out of your paycheck, the employer pays the other half.

Guess what, the employer pays 100% of your paycheck, including your vacation, pension, healthcare and taxes. It doesn't really matter to the employer how the cost is labeled. That's why you get to charge more when self-employed.

> The final cost is comparable.

Comparable? It's almost double if you don't take any care. Also, what if you don't have children? It's apples and oranges.

> The 15% is only if you participate in the public system - the private is not tied to your income.

Caveat: You are forced to take part in the public system unless you earn well or you are self-employed.

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