Comment by auber | Hacker News Reader

Comment by auber | Hacker News Reader

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The whole used car thing is just flat out wrong. If you are a mechanic and you know how to asses the health of a car perfectly and you are able to actually find a car that she not unreliable then maybe buying a used car would make sense. But even then you are giving up backup cameras, good mileage/hybrid tech and most importantly you are giving up the HUGE amount of progress that has been made in safety that is designed into the structure of the car. And on top of that you have to drive around an old beater that you aren’t proud to be seen in. Just buy a new Toyota Corolla. It’s guarnteed to be as reliable as possible, has a backup camera and modern safety features. And it looks good. But if you pay in cash it’s only 17k so you won’t be worried about dings anyway. In my opinion thats worth ~8k.

But for the average person buying a used car will result in huge reliability problems, being stranded on the side of the road multiple times and you’ll end up paying thousands for repairs anyway. Yes, we all know that one guy who bought a used Toyota and never had problems. There’s a reason why it’s an anecdote about “that one guy I know.”

>only 17k

That's an order of magnitude more than people on the edge could dream of having all at once or hoping someone would loan them. 2k+ is an effort to save up.

Used cars are an amazing deal. It's riskier sure, but that is the reality of being poor. No one is paying thousands of dollars to get an old subcompact repaired, it's going right to the scrappers. I think you are underestimating the reliability of ~8-12 year old sub compacts/sedans. Fluids, pads and belts keeps most early 2000's Asian cars going well into the 300s.

In Europe, the situation is different (cars and gasoline is a lot more expensive here, and salary in tech is a lot lower), and your argument doesn't make much sense. A new Toyota Corolla is 25k euro, which is more than 28k dollar. That is more than my gross year income and about 8 years of rent (and I work as an IT consultant, which is not a particularly bad job), and I still completely neglected recurring costs (taxes, gasoline).

If you buy a new car, you're paying for the fact that it is new, even if you can't see it. I did a quick search, and found a gorgeous Audi A8 that looks like it's new for 6k. You can buy a crappy old car for about 1k. So anything in between should get you something modest. Most people I know buy used cars, and I rarely have heard anyone having troubles with them (IDK, are American cars less reliable?). If you buy a relatively new used car, you get all of the advantages you list, and none of the disadvantages.

Where are you working that your gross yearly income as an IT Consultant is below 25.000 euro? Did you mean net income?

Netherlands. I am a starter and work part-time (4 days). I'll make more than 25k next year, don't worry ;)

Is your rent for 8 years really less than $28k? That's about $291 per month. I never thought Netherlands could be this insanely cheap. What region in the Netherlands do you live in?

My rent was about 8.5 times of that last year (for the whole year of 2018, I paid $28,800). I lived in Manhattan (in NYC). The salaries for programmers is higher though. The average base salary (in NYC) is around $144k[1]. With bonuses and stock though, it can easily reach $200k per year. And it gets even higher in the SF Bay Area.

The funny thing is employers are so desperate for programmers that they're willing to hire anyone who can code. You definitely don't need a degree, and you could even be a college dropout. Coding bootcamps have been sprouting like crazy all over the U.S. for the past few years. (And recruiters like Triplebyte helps people without degrees or CS backgrounds get high-paying jobs.[2])

[1] Triplebyte measured NY's average to be $144k (which my experience confirms): https://triplebyte.com/software-engineer-salary

[2] https://triplebyte.com/blog/bootcamps-vs-college

So, if a new Toyota Corolla is reliable, surely a lightly used one ought to be too? I mean, provided the owner changed the oil regularly and what not. For the record, I have bought and driven a number of used cars and never had a significant reliability issue. Cars don't magically become unreliable when bought second-hand.

I don't know anyone who buys second-hand who has had significant issues. So if anything your claim about anecdotes would be inverted for me.

a used car is not the same as a beater. Getting a used car that is just a few years old will shave off a good chunk of the depreciation curve in many cases without sacrificing features/reliability.

This is correct - don't buy cars new, esp. if you're not using it as a status symbol. a low milage (but new-ish) used car is much better value for money.

I think it's more likely that we all know the one guy who bought a used Toyota or Honda and did have a significant problem. No one can assess the health of a car perfectly. You make a purchase with some broad averages in mind.

That's also what sets the used car market, of course. Is that specific Audi or Range Rover going to cost more in maintenance than that Honda or Toyota over the next 5 years and 50K miles? I can't say. Are those 20 Audis/Range Rovers going to cost more than those 20 Honda/Toyotas? I'd bet a large fraction of my net worth on it!

I'm not sure where the idea that most working-class people have $17K lying around to drop on a new car, so they can avoid carrying insurance/worrying about dings comes from, but it doesn't match my anecdotal experience with solid, working-class people.

Our family could relatively easily afford any non-exotic car, paying cash for new. The last 3 cars we bought were a 1998 Mercedes diesel with 188K mile on it, a 2005 CR-V with 167K miles on it, and a 2014 LEAF (new, with $10K in tax credits on it). Over that ~10 year period, I bet I haven't spent $4K on maintenance across that fleet and still have the Honda and LEAF. Only significant repair was Honda clutch ($1500), tires ($600), then a bunch of wear items (serpentine belt tensioner, brakes, a battery, an exhaust repair $400, wipers), and oil changes. The items with dollars above are farmed out; the routine wear items and oil changes I do in the driveway.

Your view is non-sense. Most used Toyotas, Hondas, lexus, and acuras are extremely reliable. Buy one that is 4 years old with around 40k mileage and you'll save 50% on the price.

Will still include backup cameras etc.

You bring up some valid points, yet I remain a used car advocate. A used car does not mean an old car. The last car I purchased was two years old and in quite nice condition. It has a rear view camera, heated seats and steering wheel, and advanced stability controls. I enjoy it, and enjoy that I spent about half as much as if I brought new.

A two years used car may be a great compromise here: it still has another year of warranty left, so you're getting pretty much the same car for 30% off.

Or just don't own a car.

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