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Comment by dx87 | Hacker News Reader

If it makes you feel any better, not everywhere is like that. I work at a mid sized technology consulting company on the east coast, and I've heard multiple managers say that they hate when they have to manage developers from the west coast. My manager told us about a time she got a nasty email from the lead developer of a team because she started an email with "Hey guys" instead of a gender neutral greeting.

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That is regional, though. I'm from New York and I've addressed groups of older female relatives as "you guys" without anyone batting an eye.

In other parts of the country that's not common and people see "guys" as gendered, and people feel like you're forgetting they're there.

The word "dude" as a form of address is gender neutral and business appropriate some places and not others.

It's a hard problem: Y'all works some places but sounds goofy and affected in others. Same with "folks."

I've lived in the Rust Belt, the southeast, and California for big chunks of my life and you're right on about regionalisms. For language or social norms in general, all that matters is how something's taken, not what was meant by it.

If I know that some phrase is really uncommon or has different shades of meaning in a different part of the country or a different part of the world, I also know that if I use that phrase in that other place, it will get interpreted differently from what it means to me. It can be frustrating if I haven't yet picked up on the differences, but it's just the nature of communication.

I have also tried to hang on to "y'all" and "folks" since moving to the west coast. "Folks" is a harder sell though, when I use it feels more like an affectation. But that's my perception of others' perceptions. Maybe I'm pulling off "folks" without realizing it. But "y'all" has more staying power, because it's a legitimately useful term that's otherwise missing from the English language.

"you all" or "youse" can work as reasonable alternatives. I haven't tried "tons" since I've never actually heard it "used in anger."

One less fraught, but equally confusing terms are "a couple" vs. "a few" vs. "a handful" (some believe "couple" = 2 whereas others treat it and the others as explicitly more fuzzy). Often it's best to just assume as little context as possible and be a little more explicit and verbose.

Also Pittsburgh gets an honorable mention- they have "yinz" instead of y'all or youse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinz

Hey everyone

Hey everybody!

Listen up people

All,

What each of you needs to do...

I have a task for all of you

Let’s all have a great time

Alright gentlemen and lady,

Everyone on the team should read this

This applies to everyone on the team

Any person on the team can do xyz

If you see something, say something

Thou hast best checkest thyself, ‘ere thee wreckest thyself!

It's not really regional. I have noticed this most from folks who are transitioning genders. Some are OK with "they", but some prefer folks to go above and beyond to affirm their new gender, thus objecting to "dude" and "guys".

As a result, I've gotten into the habit of saying "y'all" and "folks" even though I'd otherwise never have used these words.

I use gentlefolk, to avoid this issue (also it's kinda of a cool word, that people tend not to use very much).

It is regional outside of the USA, quickly gaining gender neutrality in the UK, Australia, India, .... y’all or folks won’t cut it in those places.

Folk is fine in the UK and works well, as does "everybody".

I would have said dude is male but in the UK "guys" is now gender neutral amongst younger generations.

I am European. "Y'all" and "folks" are big warning signs for me. When I see someone use those, I know where things are going.

Headed for profit, charm and lightheartedness?

Just saying, guys in the plural is gender neutral.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/guy

How many guys have you dated?

Context matters.

“You guys” is gender neutral.

It's funny, the mind-boggling sensitivity definitely goes both ways. I've known people who received direct but totally polite feedback suggesting they use one of many delightful gender neutral greetings instead of "guys", and became incredibly defensive. Probably described the feedback with a word similar to "nasty".

There's nothing "polite" about trying to create conflict out of trivial non-issues.

Since it's such a trivial non-issue, shouldn't it be easy to accommodate someone's preference without conflict? Do you believe that anyone who's ever expressed a preference on a trivial non-issue was deliberately trying to create conflict?

You don't get to call things "trivial non-issues" when by default they all tilt your way.

I’ve heard the same protest that MITM attack should be changed to “person-in-the-middle” attack. From west coast professionals no doubt.

Despite what many people say, usage of you guys as non-gendered address, similar to the regional y'all, is rather well-established: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/11816/is-guy-gen.... However, in corporate environments it's still a good maxim to be mindful of people who have non-standard sensibilities, e.g. I personally use you guys as email address only for all-male group of recipients.

Why aren't they respecting your diversity and cultural language? I mean this in a serious way. There is a clash here between your cultural language and their views on gendered language and they immediately got offended by cultural differences and tried to impose their culture on your manager.

Strange, I consider "guys" to be gender neutral. Presumably "guys and gals" would be offensive to non-binary folk?

So what's the acceptable format? "guys, gals, and... others?"

"Hello", "good morning/afternoon/evening". In Japanese, "Ohio/Konichiwa", in German "Guten tag" etc.

All,