But I'm Not a Lawyer, I'm an Agent
davidsimon.com
davidsimon.com
"Packaging" is a talent agency bundling up different creative roles (writer, producer, actor) for a project (film or tv show) and then pitching that group of people for that specific project to the studios. The agency takes a percentage of the _project_ revenues instead of a percentage of each individual _talents_ pay for the project.
This is apparently the standard way things work in Hollywood now and has some consequences:
1. It screws up the "Agent" part of the talent agency. They no longer directly represent an individual's interest (like a Real Estate agent or a Lawyer) because they just want to get people into a "package". This is the main problem described in the article, that there are some massive conflicts inherent to this process.
2. Packaging projects make agencies way more money than directly representing clients.
3. It reverts movie and tv making back to something like the studio days. Every actor isn't really able to work with every director, in order to get something made they need to be "packaged" which means working with someone else from within the same agency.
4. It messes up people lower on the rung more than top tier folks because they're less able to buck the system.
Been through that. Still angry.
This isn't universally true. In some US states, the frequent problem is that the agent who is showing you homes (and who you tend to think of as "your agent") is not actually your agent (with fiduciary duty to you), but a subagent of the seller (with fiduciary duty to them). Here's an excerpt from recent report on this:
---
For many years, a large majority of home buyers and sellers have worked with real estate agents. Most consumers believe that these agents always or almost always are required to represent the interests of the home buyer or seller with whom they are working. ... Yet, real estate agents often are not required by law to represent the interests of the buyer or seller with whom they are working, and many do not.
In reality, there are a number of different types of relationships allowed in most states between real estate agents and their clients.
• Single agent: The agent works solely for the client
and has fiduciary responsibility. A fiduciary agent
is “obligated to procure the greatest advantage to
his client.”
• Designated agent: The agent is recruited by the
listing agent to work with a buyer and has fiduciary
responsibility to that buyer.
• Subagent: The agent works with the buyer but has
fiduciary responsibility to the seller.
• Dual agent: The agent somehow is expected to represent the
interests of both the seller and buyer in a home purchase.
• Transactional agent: The agent works with both buyer and
seller to facilitate a sale but has no fiduciary
responsibility to either party.
https://consumerfed.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/the-agenc...---
So while it's possible that you live in a state where you are correct, where subagency and dual-agency are forbidden, in the absence of a signed contract for the services of a buyers agent, others should not follow your advice until they are certain the same is true for them.
Subagency was common up until the 90s but is exceedingly rare in today's market (and outright illegal in many states). In 2019, it is not at all a "frequent" problem.
Real estate agents fiduciary responsibility is held to a reasonable care standard for matters relating to real estate. That means they need to be competent. Many of the things that buyers seek advice from agents are answered like "In my experience, blah blah blah". Those are usually legal questions, which agents are not able to answer. Often when people get in trouble, its because they don't understand what they are asking and mistake salesy fluff for an answer.
End of the day, 99% of what a "buyers" real estate agent does is bullshit that makes you feel better. "Sellers" real estate agents get listings, period. Buyers agents exist because people good at getting listings have a disincentive to talk to buyers. The buyers agent's primary task is getting ahold of keys quickly and pushing sellers to accept offers. Shitty agents who are incompetent or dishonest may slow-roll things to get you to accept offers quickly.
They may help you identify the type of home you want, but that isn't a fiduciary duty.
When the first offers are underpriced, a lot of agents will pressure you into selling, because their income is tighly coupled with the number of transactions per year.
There’s a couple of studies from the US that concluded that most sellers close the deals way too early, and that rationally they should have waited for more offers.
Actually, that's the poster child for a conflict of interest.
Lawyers would get disbarred it they operated similarly.
Commission is typically 6%, which is split 4 ways to the buying agent, their agency, the selling agent and their agency. So your agent personally takes home 1.5% of the selling price -- on a $300,000 sale, they are making $4,500.
The difference between selling your house for $300,000 and $310,000 after commission is $9,400 in your pocket -- and a paltry $150 for the agent. Are they going to take the risk of leaving it on the market for an extra week (and spending more time showing it, etc) hoping to make an extra $150? Of course not. (Spoiler alert for the book: unless it's their own home, in which case they leave it on the market for an extra 10 days and sell for an extra 3% on average).
Another incentive problem exists on the buy-side: your agent gets paid more money the more you pay for the house. It's literally working against their interest to negotiate a lower price, other than when it's above your absolute maximum.
Traditionally, the commission paid was 5% (split 4 ways), but some markets that got as high as 7%. I once had an agent explain to me (who was bad at math) that this was due to inflation.
The financial services industry has been skimming gajillions of dollars off the whole economy. Might as well pay at least some of it back to folks doing honest work.
Even if the amount more they'll be making is trivial, it ends up being the same as the seller's agent problem in reverse. At best their incentives are to not care how much you pay, but want you to buy a house already without them showing you more. At worst, they actually want you to pay more.
You can and I did negotiate the BPP and then tell the seller that you will be paying the closing costs yourself and deducting them from the BPP. Then you avoid paying sales tax on the closing cost service and paying property tax on the closing cost service.
Oh, and don't even get me started on the financial services industry scam of mortgage interest deductions.
Oh yeah, that's evil. They're not representing their client at all anymore.
The obvious way to align these interests is that the "packager" should share a portion of their "packaging" cut with the people "packaged". But of course, the point of the whole "packaging" economy seems to be so they don't have to do this.
I know I've been in circumstances where something like this would have worked really well.
That's a consulting firm.
In contrast, I thought anyone actually working on processes or products but not being an employee is a contractor. If anyone can enlighten me, I’d be glad. I always wondered what consultants do.
The consulting you're talking about is "management consulting", but there's a huge world of stuff out there.
Sometimes either of those, but often they just have a pulse and keep a seat warm.
For example if you need a mobile app and hire a company that specializes in building mobile apps for their clients, there's a good chance the contract will say "consulting agreement" across the top.
But, in general conversation among technologists, those are more often called vendors, or contracting firms, or agencies.
When it's an individual person, the label usually depends on their role: consultant has some ownership of the result (in theory), contractor does skilled labor as assigned, temp does less skilled labor as assigned, intern, etc.
In practice, there can be a lot of difference between a consulting team and a regular one.
1. An "Agent" who was repping you doesn't disclose that they're also repping the Project Manager for the team (who is really well known) and you lose out.
2. Because of the incentives, there's little interest from the agent that is repping you to look for work for your solo projects or if it intersects with another agency.
Essentially now, if you are a writer or b-list celebrity, you almost need an agent to represent you when dealing with your agent.
https://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2011/01/21/why-andreess...
This being Hacker News and all, I thought the idea that a16z is modeled on CAA would have come up already.
If you want to label it as "bad writing", you're certainly within your rights. But it's reductive, it misses the point, and worst of all, as an insult, it's rather boring.
Too bad, too, because I make the same criticism myself, of the New Yorker style of "make me wade through 500 words just for an inkling of what this is actually about". But yeah, it's a matter of taste.
https://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdo...
I think it's more that the consensus style of much business communication, technical documentation, and academic literature is very sparse and dry and focused. Which is most definitely a style and not a baseline which represents some sort of "normal".
You can make the argument that the style of the blog post supports its content and purpose by showing and emphasizing the outrage with Simon felt/feels.
So yeah, labelling it as "bad writing" is ridiculous. Agreed. : ).
Sorry for the rant - I have strong feelings about the written word : ).
Although there are still a few things that jump out and you have to forgive. Like how I had to forgive Frank Sobotka's angry blue-veined diamond cutter. Actually I don't know that I've forgiven him for that even yet.
https://deadline.com/2019/03/wga-members-overwhelmingly-appr...
Funny side note I learned from my girlfriend who is an aspiring writer and has worked at an agency: agents call this practice "getting points on the package" which may be a term that rings a bell if you've watched the wire, https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Points%20on%...
In that case, the guy representing Fox and Bones was also the guy representing Hulu. So he sold the rights for $0.
He literally signed both party lines on the streaming rights contract. And thought he'd get away with it.
Example from this morning: https://mobile.twitter.com/AoDespair/status/1113779904028598...
The article is much better with this.
I'm sure there's other more rational, balanced and nuanced articles but I am dead certain that's not what this particular writer wanted to convey, and the language to me seems intentionally polarising, not accidentally so.
It is sure to ruffle some feathers, more so than a nuanced essay, which likely would have garnered little more than a "hm" from most people. Sometimes shouting in the street gets attention, and when you have that attention is when you hit with the logic.
This is from the guy who wrote "The Wire" (appeal to authority notwithstanding) so I'm willing to lend him some credibility that he understands how to use language, and accept that he has creative freedom in expressing opinions on a subject matter which has personally affected him and other creatives in an industry he deeply respects.
That is not to say I don't think that there needs to be other more balanced and informative essays written on the subject, I just don't think that this article is meant to achieve that purpose.
See michaelbuckbee: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19571258
If acted on like a union (Equity) then the whole process would stop in a month
https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/wga-agencies-writers-agree...
> The WGA aims to revise its decades-old rules to bar agencies from taking packaging fees from production entities on TV series and movies, and the guild seeks to bar WGA members from working with talent agencies with parent companies active in the production arena.
Agents are notoriously terrible people, but they get away with it because of conceits like these from the talent.
Good God, my eyes.
The ethics of taking both sides of a deal need to be more explicit, as it is very common, and in any agency market, considered ideal.
- Read Ian McEwan before and after he became a national treasure and people stopped editing him.
- W. Sommerset Maughm's "Of Human Bondage," was an indulgent landfill of discarded ideas compared to his edited work.
I could go on, but writing in the service of others vs. the onanism of intellectually retired artists are very different things.
For a topic like the ethical (fiduciary?) obligations of agents to the people they represent, the issues above raise doubts about whether the writer can think clearly enough to represent a credible and honest case.
To triple down, when you are a pro writer, producing ostentatiously poor work is a forfeit and an expression of contempt for readers.
His primary audience is not HackerNews. I assume that most of the people subscribed to David Simon's blog are probably working in Hollywood and thus do not need so much explanation as to what Packaging is. He even explicitly calls out the fact that we are not the intended audience for his rant in the first substantial paragraph of the piece, and implicitly through his repeated references to the Writer's Guild of America.
So I find this criticism rather unfair. Imagine a Facebook group for bird watching complaining about how a Medium post ranting about the evils of object-oriented programming didn't sufficiently explain what it is to people with no experience in programming.
On a tangent: your original comment is missing a possessive comma. But I would never make the argument that such a lack of attention to detail brings your entire line of thinking into question. I'll take issue with the content of your post rather than the form.
I would very seriously argue that someone who does not write clearly in their native language has not reasoned clearly enough about what they are trying to express.
They may experience, feel, believe, express, or desire, but without the language, they have not reasoned about it with clarity. What's more, they are relying on something other than reason to prevail. It's analogous to the "you only know something as well as you can teach it," or Feynman's "explain it to a child," learning technique.
Regarding the apostrophe, it's a fine catch and I would ask whether the effort the writer made was commensurate with their intended purpose.
By the agency. Which is why it's a conflict of interest and unethical.