TSMC and OIP Deliver Industry’s First Complete Design Infrastructure 5nm Process
tsmc.com
tsmc.com
TSMC also gained lots of momentum from the Smartphone Revolution. All of a sudden you have a 1.3B Smartphone Market, from SoC, Wireless BaseBand, and all sort of other component Fabbed with TSMC, compared to Intel's 250M PC Market. Now of course Intel make many times higher margin, but considered TSMC has a diverse group of clients utilising its current and old Fab compared to Intel doing it all by themselves, TSMC now has similar resources to Intel and innovate.
And compared to Intel which has big leaps across generation, TSMC's approach were to iterate, so you get 16nm, 16mn+, 10nm, 7nm, 7nm EUV, 5nm EUV, all of them were iteration of previous generation.
Since process names have largely lost any meaning I just wanted to see if they compared density to their own previous node. I was not disappointed, though they don't mention the actual SRAM density change.
It seems like moving past 5nm is going to be... a lot differnet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanowire
(edit to add) Nanowire is mentioned as the next likely node after 5nm on that article, but it doesn't link back: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nanometer
There’s alot of room down there, below the extended Moore’s law, just not always so CMOS-ey.
Besides that 5 < 7.
If you're asking long-run questions in terms of HW/SW stack performance, I strongly suspect we've got another 3-10 doublings with "just more HW". If any of the post-patterning mechanisms pan out we could, theoretically, get another 15-20 doublings by going all the way down to atoms. After that ... I dunno; sort of the realm of scifi at that point.
It's very expensive in terms of tooling, since you need a lot more more masks, and production time spend in lithography steps. See this comment in this discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19570724 for a bit more.
- TSMC are the only company currently shipping real products at 7nm, and 5nm is a full generation ahead beyond that - nobody else is anywhere close to 5nm.
- Samsung will have a 7nm later this year that is broadly equivalent to TSMC's current 7nm (data point: the Galaxy S10 ships with either the Exynos 9820 on Samsung's "8nm" (enhanced/rebranded 10nm) process, or the broadly-similar-performance-with-better-power-efficiency Snapdragon 855 on TSMC 7nm)
- Intel will have a 10nm later this year that is broadly equivalent to TSMC's current 7nm. They are still shipping 14nm as their leading node.
- Global Foundries have stopped further investment beyond 14nm.
Intel hopes to have a 10nm later this year
Without knowing the causes for why Intel are failing to deliver 10nm we can't say if it's an Intel problem, or a 10nm team problem.
And even then, would they not be building on the 10nm process to develop the 7nm process to some extent? Otherwise you're reinventing the wheel twice, and may as well jump straight to 5/3/2nm processes.
The other big rumored problem they were having was with cobalt interconnects and I have no idea if they've made it work or abandoned it or what.
While the Pentium 4 team was churning out ever more power-hungry space heaters, a separate team came up with Pentium M. It became the basis for the Core architecture that gave Intel a 10-year monopoly.
If anyone knows that having separate teams reinvent their own wheels can have a massive payoff, it's Intel.
Also, it's funny how the space heating monsters of yesteryear reached 115W and we are still making fun of that today when desktop CPUs can be above 200W https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-9900k-9th... and workstation CPUs will go above double that https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-...
Admittedly, under normal circumstances most people will never have their CPU consuming more than 65W and that's awesome.
No, they are very different processes.
There is institutional knowledge, built up over every new generation. Now 7nm could be different to 10nm, but they've learnt transferable knowledge from that effort, even if its just how not to do it.
Just to add, by that time TSMC will have an improved 7nm based on EUV.
I wonder what happens after TSMC 3nm, that is roughly 2022 / 2023. I am pretty sure we can do 2nm, but without another market expansion to further spread the cost of unit, I wonder who will be able to afford these leading nodes. With every generation being much more expensive than previous gen. Smartphone unit shipment are not growing, in fact leading node Mobile SoC are likely shrinking on a YoY basis due to slower replacement cycle.
We surely haven't reach the technical limit of SemiConductors, but it looks to me we reach the Market / Economical Limit.
7nm is here to stay. 5nm is possible it is just an optimisation of 7nm SAQP and can be done without radical increase of maskset costs.
After that, we are going down the rabbit hole of EUV litho.
A poorly held secret in the industry is that fabs want to use EUV to not to make <7nm, but to make economical <40nm litho with single exposure.
The biggest increase in cost after 40nm were due to increased numbers of exposures and more non-device and metal layers.
Cheap 20nm, single exposure planar litho will be a very commercially attractive process for a lot of things.
I heard some say this, Would it really be "Winter" though? I guess from equipment manufacture perspective that is yes. From the industry as whole I guess it is just longer cycle, more cost reduction from technology stand points.
>A poorly held secret in the industry is that fabs want to use EUV to not to make <7nm, but to make economical <40nm litho with single exposure.
I guess that is still many years out? Considering all the ASML EUV unit are fully booked till 2021, and with increasing use of EUV from Intel I guess that is likely to continue till 2023 / 2024.
It would be quite some time before we can make super cheap 20nm components.
Yes, serious economists hired by fab companies almost all think so. See, fab ecosystem can't create demand by itself, it relies on clients selling new fancy things, and there are no new fancy things on the horizon, and even "megaclients" are scaling down new orders.
The one overt ways fabs can stimulate consumption is by inventing ground breaking new concepts, and then giving them away... As was with chip cameras (smartphones, optical mouses) RF integration (think of every SoC with wireless today,) MEMS, power on silicon...
Even on that from, there is little new things coming.
> I guess that is still many years out? Considering all the ASML EUV unit are fully booked till 2021, and with increasing use of EUV from Intel I guess that is likely to continue till 2023 / 2024.
1 single exposure on planar EUV process can replace 10+ multiple patterning exposures. So, even with a dramatically lower throughput, it can slash process times, and shoot up yields.
While smart cars are still nowhere near the horizon, they already contain all kinds of chips and 5G is just being laid out, so ... talk about mobile ;)
The only possible lift for the market is the SEA and India make major leaps and bounds in their economical growth. But that is unlikely to happen either.
That's an interesting approach since they'll be able to refine the 14nm step itself much like Intel has been doing for some time. That leaves them in a pretty good position as the finer nodes (10nm, 7nm etc.) will be inherently limited for a long time due to their unfavorable NRE costs, use will be possible only for the highest-profile stuff with the broadest feasible market.
I would really love to see this and a macbook which finally does not throttle under load and is really quiet.
It also remains to be seen what the yields are for 5nm. It might be the case that only small area chips like cell phone SoCs and laptop CPUs can be manufactured for a long time, as was the case with 12nm and 7nm. GPUs typically need as much area as they can get to fit more compute cores.