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Comment by djtriptych | Hacker News Reader

This issue (and to be fair, the removal of the escape key (I'm a vim user)) have absolutely kept me from upgrading.

I have a 2018 macbook (from work). I love how fast it is, and the touchID built in. Almost everything else is a regression:

- No USB ports

- No magsafe connector

- Useless touchbar (for me anyway). Actually worse than useless as it disrupts my previous workflows.

- Terrible keyboard even when working to spec.

It's a shame. I still have my 2009 MBP and mid-2013 rMBP and had already budgeted ~$3000 every 4-5 years for a brand new machine. As my 2013 is starting to show it's age I really have no idea what I'd get, but there's no fucking way I give Apple $3000 for a computer I know I don't like.

Wish Lenovo could match up with form factor and screen quality.

View on HN

Still a classic: https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the...

> Despite the many improvements, Apple is actually dropping the price on its flagship 15" MacBook Pro by $400

I choked on my beer

I think I understand why they got rid of old magsafe (it was very thick and was probably a limiting factor in how slim the computers are) but I can't believe they didn't create a new one. That was one of the greatest usability features of any piece of hardware, ever.

To me, MBPs long ago reached the point where additional thinness provided no utility, or at least, was greatly outweighed by the utility of having more or better ports.

Yes. I continue to hope they make a slightly thicker Macbook with a battery that lasts twice as much (~20-24 hours). I'd buy it in an instant, since it would mean I don't have to carry the charger with me everywhere I go.

I still hope they'll put the pro back into Macbook Pro - larger form factor, bigger battery, bigger screen, more key travel for heavy typing, etc.

Isn't the limiting factor the max battery size that is allowed to be brought on an airplane? Nobody wants a laptop that can't come on the plane with them.

100 watt-hour limit on batteries, you must ask for permission to fly with anything larger and if it isn't installed in a device / it's a spare it must be in checked baggage.

The 13" MBP has a 54Whr battery, the 15" an 83Whr battery.

https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/travelling-safely-batt...

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/as...

https://www.apple.com/au/macbook-pro/specs/

U.S. DOT: Spares, max 2, are forbidden in checked baggage.

Lines 7-8: https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/safe-travel/batteries

In your FAA document, page 2, line 3.

Note that, generally, batteries must be in carry-on baggage, not checked.

I believe the battery capacity is limited by restrictions on the size of batteries that you are allowed to take on flights.

I love USB-C, you know you can use both the 19W and 29W charger on both the 13” and 15” MacBook?

Carrying a charger in your backpack is worse than having a laptop that weighs 500g more?

The weight is likely a wash. Its 2 different items so more opportunities for one being lost/broken. It’s easy to forget the charger. A charger is only useful if you have a place to charge. And finally, a charger means a cable sticking to an outlet, potentially out in public, which isn’t just more annoying than simply having the laptop, but increases the risk of damage.

I’m finding it hard to see a scenario where I would prefer a charger over a little additional weight on the laptop itself.

Yeah the 2014ish Retina MBPs are thin enough and the latest ones don't even feel any thinner.

Having both near me, the 2018 feels much thinner/lighter than the 2014.

But guess what? It doesn't really matter. I'd still pick the 2014 chassis if it was specced the same as the 2018.

I much prefer the new chassis simply because it's noticeably less of a pain to carry around while retaining the same performance.

I do hope the next chassis will fix the keyboard and maybe even add back the sd-card reader, not to mention introduce top spec non-touchbar models.

The silliest part is that the newest MBPs are plenty thick enough to accommodate the magsafe connector, but Apple likes to play games by making just the edge thin and hiding the other half of the machine's thickness in a big bulge underneath.

If they just extended the bulge a centimeter out to the edges it wouldn't look as slim but it would easily be able to fit magsafe, USB-A, HDMI, and maybe even RJ45.

I'm hoping this is what happens in the next redesign which should be coming soon. The iPad Pro already went for a flat edge design, so hopefully that gets carried over to the MBP.

More than that, I hate that they got rid of the charge indicator on the cable, which they easily could have kept even with USB-C charging. The old-old MacBooks with the 5 dot battery indicator were awesome, I hate having to pick up my laptop, open it, wait for the screen to turn on and then wait for the OS to update the power indicator in the status bar. That used to be visible from across the room with the old cable.

The reason the keyboard is defective is because they made it thinner and moved to a new design because the old key mechanism wouldn't fit.

Let's add a few millimeters back and give us MagSafe and the old keyboard.

The white insulation around the cable tended to wear out extremely quickly, especially with any kind of heat. It discolored, then started to come apart, especially at spots where Apple did not provide appropriate strain relief.

I think between 2013 and 2018 I went through three replacement MagSafe 2 adapters at $75 a pop.

The MagSafe idea I miss. Their implementation? No.

I find the original Apple cables generally very short lived these days. I bought a USB-C to Lightning cable to charge my phone when the Touch Bar MBP came out, and it's already come apart (< 2.5 years). Similar with the USB-C power cable. I mean, it's just $19 + $35 to replace them, but still.

I wonder whether it's related to the push to be more environmentally friendly.

Did you mean to ask whether Apple are making their cables fall apart more easily in an effort to make the more environmentally friendly?

That's an interesting take. I don't think it holds up because their charge cables have been falling apart before the charger reaches end of life for at least as long as I've been using MacBooks, so 13 years.

I'm thinking this is probably related to them going PVC and Phtalate free. While the avoidance generally could be seen as laudable from a environmental perspective, it might have been counter productive in this particular instance, especially since the cable itself can't be replaced without replacing the entire charger.

It really has to be a nightmare trying to optimize cables for environmental friendliness, especially in an environment where the looks are so important. I don't know about all the options as I'm not in the business, especially for white cables there simply doesn't seem to be many, or even any reasonable option.

Notably, the newer generation of chargers seems to have replaceable cables. Maybe that's the least bad?

https://snapnator.com/

Had a 2015 MBP. Loved it. But had to part ways with it half a year ago.

I bought a 2018 15' MBP last week. I wanted the 2018 model for the 6 core CPU, so did not have a choice regarding the TouchBar.

Here are some of the issues I've experienced since the purchase:

1. I keep on hitting escape multiple times because I don't know if I've touched it or not. More often than not, I will press it one time too many or not trigger it at all. I don't look down at the keyboard when I type.

2. I switched the TouchBar to show function keys (f1, f2, etc) by default. I plugged in an external monitor and was prompted if I want to extend the screen or mirror it. After selecting one of the options, there is NO WAY to change your external display settings using any keyboard shortcuts.

3. Every time I want to change volume or brightness, I have to look down at the TouchBar. It gets annoying, it is unnecessary, and again I have to look at the damn TouchBar to be sure how much I've lowered/increased the volume/brightness.

4. I use vim. It is a nuance.

I bought this to do development work, mainly because I highly value the trackpad and OSX user experience. But to be honest, I am contemplating returning it within the 14 day window because how fucking annoying the TouchBar is. Knowing that without this gimmick, the device would have more battery, more space to accommodate a proper keyboard mechanism, just makes me wonder how much out of touch with the users must the designer or product manager at Apple be? Not to mention that without it, MBP would probably cost around $150-$200 less.

The TouchBar is utter garbage. Why slap it on a $2,000+ "pro" machine? It makes the MBP line up an expensive gimmick toy for rich kids. Total cashgrab and disdain towards their customer segment who rely on these machines for actual work.

I won't go into details about the butterfly keyboard and magsafe. While those decisions are unpopular, they aren't as debilitating as the TouchBar.

I remember Steve Jobs talking about the downfall of Xerox being caused by marketing people taking over control of sales and product development. Now Apple is following the same footsteps. They're abandoning good and sound designs which got them to where they are now.

Sorry, but I had to rant. The TouchBar is utter garbage.

Get a used or refurb'd mbp without touchbar - what do you really need 6 cores for

also fyi you can map caps lock to esc so that resolves your esc issue at the least

I'm holding onto my 2015 for dear life but it's still going very strong, i imagine i can keep using it a few more years at least

I got a refurbished machine. The thing is, I wanted the 8th gen cpu with 6 cores, and for me it wasn't worth dropping slightly less on a 2015/2016/2017 MBP with old hardware.

Well maintained 2015 MBP on ebay are too expensive for the kind of hardware that they have. In my opinion, at least.

> what do you really need 6 cores for

People kept saying the same thing about wanting 32GB memory in a laptop. Look what happened.

szggzs27's workflow could be vastly different than yours, and in no way invalidates either, but assuming that there's no need for a 6 core in a laptop is profoundly judgmental and ignorant.

I agree it’s garbage, but wanted to add what kind of helped me. I removed all of the default buttons/siri until there were only the volume and brightness, then I put some space between the two. That helped enough to work 60-70% of the time without looking.

Given the reports from Twitter, WSJ, etc. that the 2018 keyboard isn't much better than the 2016 and 2017, in your shoes, I would return the MBP.

I was ready for an upgrade from my 2013 MBP, so I went with a Dell XPS 15. Really no complaints about it, although it is heavy/large for lugging around to a quick coffee shop jaunt. I picked up a refurb Surface Pro i5 for those, which I am just now getting around to setting up.

The XPS 15 trackpad is slightly worse than my 2013 MacBook's, but I use it mainly as a desktop replacement (it literally replaced a Skylake i7 Hackintosh I was using as my desktop.) Everything else works well.

I have WSL set up on Windows 10, which is really, really neat. It's a full Ubuntu instance in a window, without the overhead of a standard virtual machine. I had an entire LAMP development set up on it in under an hour (and most of that time was just waiting for it to run updates.)

I mainly use the Adobe suite, a web browser, and now that I'm writing software again, a LAMP stack. The XPS 15 is a perfect fit for this. I did turn automatic updates off when I first got the computer, so it prompts me to run the "seasonal" updates, not unlike macOS. Everything else was super easy to get used to.

>> Wish Lenovo could match up with form factor and screen quality.

The Carbon X1 has a nice 2560x1440 HDR screen and similar form factor.

Then they also have the X1 Extreme and P1 if you want 64GB of memory or a 15" version. And the T480S which hyou can still upgrade yourself, but isn't quite as slim.

One of the selling points of macs is the fact that they run macOS. Comparing other computer models purely on hardware specs doesn’t account for this.

I used to agree with you on this, but frankly at this point unless you specifically need to write iOS software or run some particular audio/video stuff (I've got a Mac in my audio stack for Logic Pro still, but I use DaVinci Resolve for video editing and don't have much call for Photoshop anymore) a modern desktop Linux can do pretty much everything that a developer's likely to deeply care about.

I went from MacOS to Fedora and haven't really looked back. I have old Macs as boxes for Logic Pro, for iOS builds, and for the occasional Photoshop work, but I don't find myself needing to carry them with me anymore.

For me, and I suspect for a lot of folks, desktop Linux is probably good enough (and, for me, enjoyable in a way that MacOS used to be but isn't anymore) to be very productive and Lenovo's hardware is fantastic.

I used to agree with you on this, and was a Mac OS hater for years.

But even now, desktop Linux is constantly broken. I just recently spent an hour getting wifi drivers to work again, and switched back because I remembered just how frustrating it is to have everything feel like it’s “third world” computing.

I was playing around with different versions and at one point uninstalled 2 and 3 in an attempt to fix something funky I was seeing. Apparently that was a bad idea, as removing Python also removed the Ubuntu desktop, so when I rebooted I was greeted with the command line and had to reinstall the Ubuntu desktop to get things back up and running.

Maybe to some people that makes sense, but to me that's the equivalent of uninstalling a version of .NET in Windows and then being greeted with a command line version of Windows on your next reboot.

The desktop requires Python. To uninstall a package you must uninstall its dependencies.

It's been a long time since I used apt, but you were almost certainly warned.

Consider using ASDF for userland Python version management in the future on both MacOS and Linux.

I understand the mechanics, but from a usability perspective it makes no sense that you can uninstall the interface of the OS you are using just by uninstalling a language dependency.

"The interface of the OS"--what interface? I promise you I'm not being pedantic. The OS doesn't/can't know what "the interface" is for you. Yours, to that box, is Xorg. My interface to all but two of my Linux boxes is SSH/zsh. Somebody else's might be SSH/bash. Changing the package management tools such that I have to do something nonstandard within my configuration management tools on the off chance that you fire a footgun is pretty lame, yeah? (Ditto the reverse. If I uninstall zsh, I expect something to break next time I try to SSH in.)

Choices imply the ability to make a bad one. And it's a fairly recoverable one in your case, so I gotta say the criticism feels weak.

"The interface of the OS"--what interface? I promise you I'm not being pedantic.

Sure you are.

No, I'm not. I'm telling you that there are many interfaces and that expecting generalized tools to understand your specific use case out-of-the-box is unreasonable.

The rule with Linux and drivers is and has always been: "check hardware compatibility beforehand". There are many many Linux compatible laptops that will work out of the box with no fiddling around.

It's a shame that hardware manufacturers with closed, low quality, drivers taint the image of an excellent OS for power users. However, being power users and all, the extra step of using only good hardware is not too much to ask.

What're you running on?

I ask because, in the context of this thread, everything works on the Lenovo laptops that have been mentioned. I've got two (a work and a home one, one with a discrete GPU and one without) and I dropped Fedora on them and it just worked. I keep my Macs for stuff I can't do (as mentioned elsewhere, Logic Pro and the occasional iOS build), but I've been running FC28 and then FC29 as a baseline OS for a year now with no trouble. Probably my only complaint is that the IR camera is higher in the load list than the visible-light camera so I have to remember to select the correct one for teleconferences, but if that's the biggest issue I've got with it...man, that's a pretty good place, for me.

There is definitely janky hardware out there. Would never say otherwise. But most of the time, business hardware from the big manufacturers, especially ones that will sell you a Linux laptop, will set-and-forget.

I have considered getting a Linux laptop replacement. I run Linux on multiple desktops for various reasons. I pretty much only buy desktops to run Linux, I don’t have a desktop Mac.

I have a Mac laptop because: 1) the battery life is outstanding, this is OS and hardware, 2) it just works from the standpoint of roaming between networks and connecting periferals (all be it through limited port options), 3) the experience is generally one of it just works with zero thought.

Now I won’t lie, I’ve considered Lenovo, it’s definitely on my list of what I would choose to replace my Mac laptop with, but I have plenty of experience with Windows, don’t like it. I have plenty of experience with Linux, don’t want to deal with issues when I’m disconnected and remote. So while Apple has hit a stumbling block here, for me it’s still the best experience that I’ve had using a computer.

I mean, that's totally fair. All I'm saying is that, for me and with well-supported hardware, "just works with zero thought" is where Fedora's pretty much gotten. :)

This is not my experience with a TP Carbon X1 6th gen + Fedora 29. I have no issues... You really have to choose your hardware wisely. I have found the Thinkpads the best with Dell XPS series following.

> a modern desktop Linux can do pretty much everything that a developer's likely to deeply care about.

Except work reliably without me having to waste time fiddling around with drivers and settings.

A few weeks ago, I installed Ubuntu 18.04, the latest LTS version, on my desktop. So, this isn't some nerdy Arch or Gentoo setup, it is basically the most mainstream GNU/Linux-based OS you could possibly imagine. I couldn't even log in because the Nouveau driver would crash every time I tried. (Maybe they've never tested it on a 4K display? Or with my specific card? Who knows.)

Also, Ctrl+Alt+FN to go to a TTY did not work, so I couldn't even fix it by installing the proprietary Nvidia drivers from there.

I was able to log in by changing to a non-default desktop environment, or maybe login/display manager? I don't remember the details. Anyway, it "worked", with slideshow-tier FPS, until I installed the proprietary drivers and everything was fine.

This isn't a fluke -- it is consistent with almost 15 years of experiences trying to use GNU/Linux on the desktop.

Something like this has simply never happened to me when using an Apple product.

You might have actually had an easier time on a nerdy arch or Gentoo setup. The Nouveau driver is heroically reverse-engineered by volunteers, and distros that ship with more recent versions of the Linux kernel might include additional features or bugfixes your hardware may need. This is specially relevant if you happen to be using a recently-released video card.

These days having to fiddle with drivers on Linux is a rarer and rarer occasion. I haven't had to worry about this ever since I ditched my NVIDIA card a couple of years ago.

I've been running Ubuntu on all of my desktops and laptops for many, many years. Prior to that, I ran Redhat, and prior to that, Slackware.

For desktop especially, I've had close to zero problems over most of that time, and especially recently, though I admit that I've always used the proprietary Nvidia drivers.

My desktops have always been generic, build your own affairs, with relatively slower/older graphics cards up until the past five years, where I've been getting one generation back from the high end Nvidia cards.

There's no question that the hardware integration for OSX is better. But, for desktop at least, in my experience, Linux has been pretty close for quite a while, though I know my experience has been better than what others have reported.

What kind of hardware did you use?

You need to do some research when buying hardware that is compatible with Linux -- this is why everyone in this thread recommends Lenovo X1. It's more expensive than other laptops, but it is really compatible Linux hardware.

Also it takes some time to get driver support into Linux kernel, so for average hardware that doesn't specifically supports Linux, I'd expect about 6 months to a year after hardware release; also for a jump in video quality -- it takes Xorg some time to get proper video support, though I saw Lenovo Yoga machines working with 4K just fine a few years ago. (Disclaimer Lenovo Yoga is not as well supported in linux as Lenovo X1 carbon)

Nvidia is notoriously hostile to linux, which made it a no-go for me and I'm sticking to either AMD or Intel for my video cards, where everything works flawlessly.

I believe the point the parent is making that Apple hardware is now bad enough that having Linux on well supported hardware, would require less fiddling and would provide better user experience.

> I believe the point the parent is making that Apple hardware is now bad enough that having Linux on well supported hardware, would require less fiddling and would provide better user experience.

Exactly. Business-class machines will generally do you just fine.

My experience: most of the Lenovo T, X, and P laptops, modulo some of the tablet/Yoga features, work out of the box. I had a HP Spectre x360 13" before a Lenovo (took it back for other reasons, didn't like the keyboard) in early 2018 and it worked out of the box--and with a 4K display besides. I've used Dell's XPS 13 and XPS 15, and they worked out of the box, too.

I realized last week that I at this point can safely assume that stuff is gonna just work with my machines. I plugged in a Lenovo Thunderbolt 3 dock with two monitors, headphones, Ethernet, and a bunch of USB devices and I didn't even stop to think first whether or not that it'd break. It didn't. It is predictably acceptable, today, in 2019.

It's emphatically not perfect. I have complaints. But the showstoppers are gone, if you buy mainstream gear.

Dell Latitude and Xiaomi laptops work well too.

> What kind of hardware did you use?

NVidia 1070 Ti

> You need to do some research when buying hardware that is compatible with Linux

This backs up my point -- I don't have to waste time researching anything with macOS.

> Nvidia is notoriously hostile to linux

That may be true, but as a user, I don't care why macOS works better, or whether it's fair. I just care that it does.

> I'm sticking to either AMD or Intel for my video cards, where everything works flawlessly.

Not an option if you need CUDA support.

> I believe the point the parent is making that Apple hardware is now bad enough that having Linux on well supported hardware, would require less fiddling

Researching what hardware is supported counts as fiddling.

You wouldn’t have to research anything either if you bought a System76 or Dell Developer laptop which come with Linux preinstalled. Everything would work out of the box.

You are comparing apples and oranges by complaining that Linux didn’t work on a laptop where it didn’t come preinstalled, whereas OSX worked on one where it did. If you tried to install OSX on the laptop you installed Linux on instead it would almost certainly fail, and if itnworked it would be because of orders of magnitude more research needed to build a hackintosh.

In a comparison with Windows Linux might fail the “install on a random laptop and have it working” test, but certainly not against OSX.

What Mac do you have that supports a 1070Ti at standard throughput?

Thinkpads generally do better with Linux than your average PC or laptop. It's partly self-reinforcing - they have that reputation historically, so people buy them to run Linux on them, and thus problems get reported and fixed faster.

I had to start using windows at work and with WSL it's not as bad as I expected. It took me about two weeks to get over the icky feeling and learning curve, but I've since then switched my daily driver at home to a windows PC because of the insanely great (hah) performance to price ratio. You might want to give it a try.

Absolutely. But the fact that I'm even considering switching OS's indicates the seriousness of the problem.

Is this really a selling point after the recent security issues?

I mean, if one of your requirements for a laptop is that "It has to run macOS." then worrying about touchbars/keyboards/etc is mostly pointless since you have to buy whatever Apple is offering.

As others have said, this is much agreed with... however, the hardware problem is so profound as to create a lens by which the OS isn't a required element of work.

My life is basically 3 browsers and Adobe CC and a code editor and a bunch of cloud file stores. I also connect to a pile of cloud Linux VMs in AWS and GCP, but I can use any decent terminal app for that. (Biggest problem for me is, access to my Photos on Windows, for personal life stuff.. but I can keep the old MacBook around for that).

I know a few people who need new hardware now and would consider buying a Windows laptop now for a year until the news is that Apple has fixed their stuff. And who's to say it's that much of an issue that people won't stick with Windows even then?

I'll also add: the new iMac Pros are nice, but the issues they've had with the Mac Pros make me wonder if they can even get a new notebook hardware line "right".

I like having Messages on my desktop, but I also sit at my desktop with an iPad and an iPhone. When my MacBook Air dies, I'll need a machine I don't hate.

Turns out, I probably hate Windows less than I hate new Apple laptop hardware.

And Lenovo laptops run Linux great. In fact, Linux runs on most laptops from all brands, just got to do a tiny bit of research to avoid the few laptops that do have parts that don't work.

I've got an AMD Ryzen powered Acer with Ubuntu, it runs better than when it had Windows on it.

FWIW, I wouldn't buy a T480s. The delta between it and the T480 isn't big and the T480 has a removable battery (and an internal battery so you can swap it without powering down or being on AC). I've had my T480 running on battery for north of 40 hours by swapping out batteries and I've also done some upgrades on it myself (2242 SSD where the WWAN card otherwise would go, more memory, etc.).

The T490...is a regression, more in line with the T480s, and it makes me sad.

How is the T490 a regression? I've decided to get a T490, and willing to wait out it becoming available with full options in my country. But if it's a regression, I might as well get a T480.

It's reported to use a thinner chassis. I haven't seen any specs but they may have done away with the removable second battery and poissibly the second RAM sslot

No second battery. The T490 is basically an improvement on the T480s, not the T480 (which makes having a T490s kinda weird). Lenovo has these weird cycles of gutting their own products before they put them back, so it'll eventually come back, but for now...ick.

I am literally buying an extra T480 to put away until I need it.

The 1920x1080 non-touchscreen version T480s screen has a somewhat bad color reproduction. If you compare side by side with some of the older T4xs's, the colors a notably less vibrant. Not that one needs the most vibrant colors for coding and editing text. It's still usable, just a bit worse than you'd expect for its class.

> Wish Lenovo could match up with form factor and screen quality.

Lenovo X1 Carbon? That's what I bought instead of a MacBook Pro 13, and I absolutely love it.

No Magsafe connector, but two Thunderbolt 3 ports, USB-C charging (even via low-end chargers, like a Nintendo Switch adapter), two full-size USB ports, HDMI out, the best laptop keyboard I've ever used, a 4K HDR screen, etc.

Yes, it's slightly thicker than a MacBook. But it uses that space to be such a better computer.

How is the trackpad? Been eyeballing the Extreme but I'm wary of the performance of the trackpad in comparison to the MBP.

This would be my question as well. The track pad is the killer macos/mbp feature imo.

My X1 Carbon (6th gen) touchpad isn’t as good as my (former) 2017 MBP.

But I am so much happier with everything else that I am willing to put up with it.

The main difference is that some of the pad click actions I found frustrating and unintuitive, but I now use the buttons which work fine.

TP Carbon X1 has the best non-Mac trackpad I have used. But honestly I don't think any trackpad is as good as the mac. It is however better than most PC trackpads

I don't mind any of those problems and I map my escape to caps lock.

I moved from Linux to a Mac for work a while ago, and I can't stand how terrible the dock and window system is.

* Alt-tab is useless. It has no way to choose a particular window without raising all the windows of the same application in the current workplace.

* What's worse, it will move workflows if there's no window open in this one.

* There's no way to say "open this application" to the dock without right clicking. Clicking an icon is a bet on whether it will open a new window, raise all the windows of the application over whatever you are doing, or move workspaces for no particular reason.

The whole system seems to be done for a one-window-per-application workflow which doesn't exist in 2019. My usual workspace has a Vim window, a terminal, and several Firefox windows open; it's impossible to move comfortably between windows without using Mission Control each time. Windows 95 had better window navigation than MacOS Mojave.

Largely agree, window management on OSX is odd to me. However, you are looking for alt-~ (tilde), which will switch windows of the same application. That was a game changer. Still honestly don't see a reason to have those separated.

I find it much quicker to navigate to the app you want first, then the window you want, than through all open windows (as on Windows).

Think about it, if you have N apps open with M windows each, then on macOS you need at most N+M key presses to reach your desired window, while on Windows you may need up to NM key presses.

I almost never want to move to an arbitrary window. Most of the time I have 2 or 3 windows which I cycle between.

23 years ago, Windows allowed me to do this in 1 or 2 clicks without looking. Now it's either a lot of clicks and observation or making a mess of my workspace.

The problem is that there is no combined shortcut for both.

Let's say I'm focused on my terminal, and I want to focus on the Firefox window that's besides me. The shortcut is Alt-tab Alt-~, but after doing the first key:

1. All Firefox windows in the current workspace go to the top of my screen

2. If there were no Firefox windows in the current workspace, OSX helpfully moves to the next one.

3. Even after that happens, I need to cycle among all Firefox windows. There's no way to Alt-tab repeatedly between pairs of windows of different applications.

You're looking for Cmd-Tab, then up/down arrow once you've selected the desired app. This will display a window selector.

Once you pick the a window, it will be foregrounded. Everything else will stay the same.

Although I see your point - you can't quickly change between App A and a specific window of App B.

Use CMD ~ to move between the windows of the current app.

I’ve also mapped a four finger down gesture to open App exposé.

> Windows 95 had better window navigation than MacOS Mojave.

it is crazy how bad windows management is on Mac. Every Mac users that I know have installed some softwares (like spectacle) to help with this. Some people must make a lot of money selling software that solve these issues.

What's crazy is that it is still not built in.

Snapping windows on the sides is something that have existed for a really long time on other systems.

> Snapping windows on the sides is something that have existed for a really long time on other systems.

You can do a side-by-side split of two windows by long-pressing the full-screen button, but it would be nice to have something with a little more versatility out of the box. I used to use a program that let me snap windows to the sides Windows-style, but it got in the way of other gestures and I almost always just want two windows side-by-side anyway so I just use the built-in functionality now.

> Wish Lenovo could match up with form factor and screen quality.

I'd encourage you to check out the Dell XPS series. My XPS 15 with a 4k display seems higher quality than the macbook display. It looks really good. It also has USB A and USB C ports, and even comes with an escape key! And Linux support is top notch.

I love my XPS 13 "Sputnik" laptop. I might go for the 15" version when my mid-2014 Macbook finally dies. It would be nice to have official Linux support on the 15" model but as a practical matter, I've never heard of any serious issues running Linux on that model. I have no interest in the current Macbook line, too many regressions, and I'm very sad about that.

I would also prefer to buy an "official" Linux version, just to vote with my wallet. But the only issue I ever saw with my XPS 15 on Fedora was related to udev and external displays with the Dell USB C dock. Every time I connected and disconnected, the display IDs would iterate higher, which threw off my sway config. Relatively minor issue, and recent updates seem to have fixed it.

I rolled my eyes when I saw the new airs released with a tactile keyboard with touch ID. Like this is the keyboard I want. Why are you preventing your pro consumers from owning the best keyboard you produce?

Also it seems like an admission of defeat on the touchbar. I don't see how adoption would ever happen if the only people with access to this hardware spent 2K+ on their device.

Yeah, it's sad to me that the MacBook Air is basically the pro laptop I would want... but with too slow a processor and not enough thermal capacity (compared to the Pro). I have lived with the non-TB 2016 13" Pro for a few years now, but I would upgrade to a newer Pro in a heartbeat if they just dropped the TouchBar. Bonus points if they keep Touch ID, which was awesome the week I tried it out.

I just picked one up a little while ago. The keyboard is easily the best in the 2016+ range, but the 10W thermal capacity is really a disappointment. It's barely faster than the "MacBook" and often dips down into the 3-4W range on CPU when loaded. I see DRAM often taking up 3W on its own.

Too bad it's so anemic.

Yeah it's a shame they watered down the Air's capabilities. I got a 2012 13" air as a second laptop to travel with, and it quickly replaced my pro as a daily driver since it was powerful enough, and so comfortable to use.

I wonder how the Air would compare to an iPad pro in benchmarks.

It might just be me, but my USB-C ports were also physically failing. And since this is also the power port, charging up was becoming trickier

Apple replaced them during my update too

I’ve not heard about anyone else having this problem with loose USB-C sockets

Not sure if it's loose USB-C ports, but it seems like the adapters are very flaky. Some work well with one machine, but others take 10+ reconnects to make it detect a monitor plugged into the HDMI port

98% of the things I plug in are the power cable and my thunderbolt dock.

The power cable was the wobbliest, but is now quite firm again

I have seen a progressive failure with my USB-C and the Plugable TBT3 doc. I never had a problem with it for the first year but now I am having to reboot the laptop regularly because it no longer talks to the display port and plugging/unplugging stops working after a while.

Also, what is up with macbookpro's Bluetooth? Everyone at my office has the 13" and no one can use Bluetooth consistantly. Lost connections, no connections, etc.

Mine are physically failing right now as well. Soon I imagine I'll have to tape the cables in place to keep them from wiggling out.

I had the same thing with my 2016. The USB-C sockets lose their 'grip' over time.

I used a pair of pliers to squeeze the usb-c male plug a little to keep it from falling out.

-> (===) <- squeeze the rounded ends in just a tiny bit.

(Edited to add: the goal is to bow outwards the straight sides of the plug just enough to provide grip without preventing it from being inserted into the socket)

I’m going to have to try this, thanks for the diagram. Heavier usb hubs etc fall out too easily currently.

A bunch of us at my office have problems with the USB-C sockets.

We have external monitors/kb/mouse through OWC Thunderbolt 3 Docks and we have a lot of trouble with the connectors on the Macbook making everything unreliable.

The whole thing is a little crazy since the OWC dock is as expensive as an iPad or a cheap windows machine.

I have had this problem occur with both my MBPros, turned out to be a tiny amount of. lint. that made its. way into. the ports. Now. I use. usb-c port covers to keep it in check.

I. of course have. keyboard. issues. as well – in case the random periods. and multiple spaces thing did not. make it obvious.

Figured this would. be a good time to. not correct the. issues. Along with the space bar my left command key doesn't always register, its shit.

Kind of funny how every random period happens at the end of a word and never during it.

When you hit the spacebar twice, the OS inserts a period. That's what you're seeing with the parent comment.

Try https://github.com/aahung/Unshaky

Thanks for pointing this out. Seems to have instantly fixed my issues!!

I've noticed that when I have mine on my lap (I tend to sit cross-legged) it seems to put pressure on the USB-C cable/port. I never had any problems using a MacBook on my lap with the MagSafe power adapter because it would just fall off if the laptop leaned on it with too much pressure.

I think the USB-C port would be better in the back of the laptop instead of on the side where it gets in the way & becomes loose if you use it anywhere other than a flat surface.

I used the removal of a real escape key to finally remap caps lock to escape, which I really should have done over a decade ago.

Caps Lock should be remapped to Control, as the Sun God intended.

I have a required MBPro for work. I actually like the keyboard, although mine isn't broken yet. I don't like the change to the arrow keys though, I keep fumbling with them.

The touchbar is dumb and should just go. No physical escape key is such a braindead move it makes me lose respect for Apple.

Magsafe I'm kind of mixed on. Magsafe was awesome, but it also got super hot -- so hot that I'd have to change how I was sitting on the bed or couch. Haven't had that problem with the USB one.

The lack of ports is dumb too. My previous macbook was plenty light -- I don't need a thinner/lighter laptop. But thank god they left in the audio jack.

The ginormous trackpad is another braindead move. Do all Apple designers have tiny hands?

The touchbar as a pro feature always seemed a little odd to me. Aren't pro users the ones that are going to learn all of the keyboard commands? If anybody is going to make heavy use of function keys, it's pro users, right?

It feels like consumers are the users that would like to look down from the screen to see a small second touchscreen.

> I don't like the change to the arrow keys though, I keep fumbling with them.

They should fire whoever designed the arrow key layout. The up and down keys(the ones used most often) are super tiny. I regularly find myself wanting to hit up and accidentally hitting down or left.

  the removal of the escape key (I'm a vim user)

To overcome this keyboard limitation in vim, Control-[ maps to ESC for programs which respect ASCII codes (Terminal and MacVim are two examples). In combination with swapping Caps Lock and Control (via System Preferences), I have found the need for an explicit ESC key greatly mitigated.

HTH

Vim worked out of the box for me on my macbook. I guess someone fixed it?

The built-in vim (/usr/bin/vim) as well as all ones which I've custom built all respect/use the ASCII control character values instead of requiring platform-specific keyboard scan codes. Of course, YMMV and all that ;-).

That's a lot of parens you've got there. You should try emacs. :)

LOL. I do like my lisps.

When I first started using touchbar macbooks for dev work I literally was accedently hitting the escape "key" on the touchbar all the time. It was super annoying and I had to re-train my pinky not to hover over the touchbar.

The macbook touchbar is a disgrace and I have NEVER seen anybody use it to improve on their workflow.

I've accidentally clicked siri approaching 1000 times

I initially found the touch bar to be a bit gimmicky on the 2016 MacBook Pro. It was a little buggy and worked inconsistently.

But fast forward several years later to the 2018 model, and I've come to really appreciate it.

Even as a heavy user of keyboard shortcuts, I rarely, if ever, use function keys.

The only regular usage that comes to mind is editing markup in the Chrome dev tools (F2 shortcut). And I rarely used the Escape key. After remapping caps lock to control, and then using control+[ for escape, you're free to use Vim, Emacs, etc. without getting carpal tunnel. I cannot fathom people actually hitting escape on a regular basis when using Vim; that seems like ergonomic egregiousness :-).

In some ways, I find the touch bar to be _more_ efficient than dedicated function keys. Changing the brightness and volume, for example, require only a single motion--tap and move the slider to the desired setting (no need to tap first, and then slide). So instead of repeatedly tapping a dedicated key, you can immediately dial-in the desired setting.

Also, I've found when watching videos or music, having a large slider on the touch bar to adjust the video position is pretty nice. Very easy to jump around.

And context-sensitive shortcuts are generally well-designed. Some things I've found useful on the touch bar include screenshots--a visual representation of the various options are shown on the screen (current window/full-screen/or region), along with options for where to save the screenshot.

Other useful features include tab-preview and switching in Safari, word suggestions as you're typing, and type to Siri (e.g. once enabled, you can tap the Siri icon and say "remind me to do X in Y hours"). Not to mention other useful tidbits like emojis when using iMessage.

I can see how people might dismiss the touch bar without having explored its capabilities--but there's no denying the innovation behind context-sensitive dynamic keys. Overall, I'm a big fan.

On Linux (specifically gnome), the situation is a bit different as function keys tend to be more prevalent.

A vim user who doesn't use caps lock

To be real though I don't like the touch bar either.

I'm a Vim user whose caps lock key is mapped to ctrl.

I map caps lock to control OS-wide.

And I'm trying to train myself to use jj instead of ESC.

But still. I miss my ESC / hardware volume / hardware brightness buttons etc.

Give Karabiner a shot - it can map caps lock to ESC on press and CTRL on hold.

I do this on every machine I use. I wrote a blog post with detailed instructions: https://www.dannyguo.com/blog/remap-caps-lock-to-escape-and-...

I never understood why people would want to press the same key twice to get to normal mode. Here's what I use:

  " j + k = normal mode
  inoremap jk <esc>
  inoremap kj <esc>

And yes, it does happen that I want to enter jk or kj and it exits the insert mode. Usually when pasting something and not more often than about once a month. `:set paste!` to the rescue.

I also recommend jk or kj over jj. Much faster and less strenuous.

And it has the added benefit that, if you type it when already in normal mode, it's effectively a no-op (as opposed to jj, which will move the cursor two lines down).

Try Ctrl+[

With caps lock remapped to Ctrl its easy to reach from the home keys and requires no Vim configuration.

On my 2016 MBP, I also map CapsLock -> Control and Left_Control to ESC. It's goofy having ESC down there but I need a physical key as I do not look at the keyboard while typing in vim - there is no haptic feedback from the glass surface.

I am 50/50 VIM / EMacs so the it's important for my control key to be on the home row.

I'm not sure why keyboards even have caps lock. It's rude in chat right :-) I started with Sun keyboards where control was on the home row. I guess if one spends hours typing long capitalized acronyms daily, then it makes sense.

It's personal preference in the end. I certainly wont buy another MBP - my 2016 has had 4 trips to the Apple store since I bought it for key replacements.

As I mentioned in another comment, you can use Control-[ to produce ESC in programs which respect ASCII control character values. So this will work with vim and emacs, but likely would not work to simulate depressing a cancel button in a GUI.

Personally, I prefer the Control-[ combo as it allows me to slide my left pinky slightly from the home row and right pinky 45 degrees up and right to produces an ESC. Over the years it has made having to hunt for a physical ESC key quite irritating for the few programs which require it :-).

HTH

I also map caps lock to control OS-wide on both macOS (Preferences > Keyboard > Modifier Keys) and on Linux (using gnome-tweak-tool).

Instead of using jj or escape in Vim/Spacemacs, I just use control+[.

With caps lock mapped as control, it's a single fast motion--left pinky to caps lock, and right pinky to [. I've been using this setup for years. It's one of the first things I setup on a new computer/OS.

Mapping caps lock to control also has other benefits. You can quickly zip around the terminal using control+a/e/k/y/d/r etc. As an added bonus, the same keyboard shortcuts work equally well on both macOS and Linux [1].

[1] https://www.ostechnix.com/list-useful-bash-keyboard-shortcut...

I agree with everything except for a missing MagSafe. I don’t miss it at all, I prefer to have extra type c port to connect extra screens and if you accidentally pull type c cable from a MacBook it pretty much does the same as MagSafe, it disconnects without moving the laptop (I tripped on my cable multiple times and it got disconnected every time).

In the same boat over here. I have ~$3K budgeted and ready for a new laptop but I am holding on to my 2013 MBP because of the current generation's keyboard.

I have my fingers crossed that they will redesign the MBP and fix the keyboard before my 2013 dies. Hope springs eternal.

In exactly the same position. What a computer the 2013 is. Way ahead of its time and I think only cost me £1500. Best laptop in existence right now, hope it lives that little bit longer.

I had similar thoughts about the touchbar, but then i discovered you can change the touchbar to always show the old function bar buttons (brightness, volume, etc) or to show F keys instead of allowing whatever program you're using to control the touchbar.

I did that when I was using a MacBook at my old job and it helped but the problem was that it was too easy to accidentally push the buttons on the touchbar by mistake.

I've had to all but disable mine on any newer MacBook I use, too. It's become part of my first-day setup routine. Otherwise getting a finger near one of the "buttons" on the touchbar triggers it. So, away go any "buttons" near where my fingers might ever go, and away goes the per-app settings which override it, leaving me with [esc] [scrn light down] [scrn light up] on the left side, biiiiig gap, then three volume control buttons way on the right.

My personal machine's still a 2014. Keyboard's much better (almost as good as the design that came before it), I don't miss the larger touchpad at all when I'm on mine with its smaller one, and I do not want to pay extra money for a touchbar that I basically have to disable first thing to have a usable machine. Oh and I have to disable force-touch because otherwise I can't reliably click-n-drag files. So all the new fancy stuff I turn off because I can't use the machine with them on.

Getting rid of the long cable for the charging brick while raising prices is a slap in the face, too. Oh and all my stuff's still USB-A. Friggin' Apple. I hate that they can mess up so badly and still be far enough ahead of the competition that it's hard to switch.

Yeah, annoyingly I used to lightly rest my fingers on the brightness/escape function keys, so now every once in a while I won't pay attention and the screen is now either full blast or off >:-[

you can't rest your fingers on the "keys" before pressing them

you can't feel what "key" you will be pressing

you get no feedback when you press a "key"

for the last one, there is an app which makes the touchpad vibrate... which really isn't the same feeling though

so yeah... that touchbar is a useless POS...

I'll take real buttons and the $100 the Touchbar costs back.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I've changed to the standard "Expanded Control Strip" and it is much better. I found the constantly updating touchbar visually distracting.

Same, still using my early 2015 rMBP, and to be fair it is working great. As long as I use it I will never have to worry about the keyboard flaking out, plus it has magsafe.

Prior to this laptop I would upgrade every two years.

Same story. Yet, should I buy a new laptop, it’d be a very difficult decision... considering a Linux machine too.

I went with a System76 laptop for precisely this reason.

How do you like it? Been looking at those.

I have the same, but the proprietary SSD interface and soldered RAM mean I can no longer upgrade so have to move on. I'm looking at either the Lenovo E490 or T490 (learning towards the E). For half the price (in the UK) of a current-gen MBP with an i5, 512GB SSD and 8 GB DDR3, I can get a base model Lenovo E490 with i7 and upgrade to 1TB SSD and 24GB DDR4. There's just no competition.

How fast is the SSD on that machine?

The Mac or the Lenovo?

I'm not sure about the Macbook's bundled SSD.

For the Lenovo, I'm incorporating the cost of upgrading to a 1TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe SSD (which has a stated sequential read/write speed of 3500/3300 MB/s).

And because the Lenovo is not using a proprietary connector (as my current Macbook is) and does not have soldered RAM (as my current Macbook does), I can upgrade both of those components down the line too.

I have almost the same feelings about my 2018 MBP. I have been very happy with a 2018 Dell XPS 15. The build quality is absolutely in line with Apple standards (though obviously a different style).

In particular I am a stickler for the mac touchpad quality and, while Dell doesn't quite match it, it's well within the tolerable range for me.

The 4K screen and touch sensitivity are nice bonuses — I didn't think I'd ever use the touch but I have come to using it a lot in casual interactions, e.g. during meetings.

You left out serviceable hard drive. If some component on the MB fails and the laptop won't boot, data recovery is almost impossible.

True, but not a regression as my 2013 is also not serviceable.

What do you mean? The 2013 MBP SSD is user serviceable, I just pulled one out yesterday. You can even upgrade it to a 3rd-party nvme ssd, there are kits all over Ebay.

That generation does have a proprietary removable drive. You can get a replacement from OWC (and an external enclosure to put your original drive in). I recently replaced a failed drive in a 2013 MBPr.

Can "backtick" key be configured to act as "esc" by default, with acting as backtick with "fn"? Most "60%" keyboards don't have separate keys for esc and backtick/tilde either, and "F" keys are not too important (except for some games).

> Wish Lenovo could match up with form factor and screen quality.

Come on over to the Linux side of the house! Between system76, ZaReason, Purism & Dell, there are some great options for a developer laptop.

And you get to customise a system which works for you, which I consider a plus.

> the removal of the escape key (I'm a vim user))

As am I. It finally made me move ESC to Caps Lock and it's actually way better IMO.

Agree with all of your other points though.

100% agree here, moving the ESC key to Caps Lock saved my marriage and made me a better father.

They should just make touch bar be a touchable dock and be done with it. At least the thing will be somewhat useful by recovering some screen space.

>I still have my 2009 MBP and mid-2013 rMBP and had already budgeted ~$3000 every 4-5 years for a brand new machine

Hey me too. I wonder how many of us there are?

Thinkpad Carbon X1 6th gen or (7th?) - this is the mac replacement (great hardware) that runs Linux perfectly.

Dell XPS with Ubuntu has been getting stellar reviews

  imap jj <ESC>

> No USB ports

What MacBook doesn't have any standard USB ports?

C'mon, dude. You know what is meant by "USB"--that it is, effectively, "not USB-C".

USB C is just as much standard USB as USB A is.

Most people call USB-A "USB." So if someone says "there's no USB port here," they mean "there's no USB-A port here."

I would tend to disagree, in a way. On a USB-C port there is USB, there might be display port and there might be thunderbolt. But only if I have the correct cable (sure, then it is a TB3 cable, not a USB-C cable). But explain that to the average Joe? Everything I connect to a USB-A port kind of works, if I add the driver.

Not everything I connect to a USB-C port works.

> USB C is just as much standard USB as USB A is.

Not in the sense of "if you buy a device, this is probably the connector it has". The fact that it's defined by USB-IF or whoever doesn't mean that USB-C devices are common or inexpensive.

Buy a Dell XPS

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