Plastic Plates, Cutlery, Cups to Be Banned in Europe as of 2021 | Hacker News Reader

Plastic Plates, Cutlery, Cups to Be Banned in Europe as of 2021

bloomberg.com

45 pointspdog20 comments

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Stated Problem:

"With plastics accounting for around 80 percent of marine litter"

Government:

"the EU rushed through deliberations on the planned restrictions in less than a year."

Solution:

"Ban the plastic that doesn't end up in the ocean".

Good job.

Maybe someone should have told them the plastic in the ocean comes from countries without trash service, and from fishing, maybe they could have funded some charity work or NGO's or something.

This ban isn't going to help a thing.

So if I'm hosting a birthday celebration for 50 people, I'm supposed to what? Ask guests to BYOC (bring your own cutlery)? Waxed paper plates and cups work OK (although not for hot drinks), but bamboo cutlery gives me a nails-on-chalkboard feeling.

Considering that a lot of this plastic crap is never recycled but rather shipped somewhere, I’d assume it will help. Every little helps. It’s a small step in the right direction. The next should be eliminating the sellotape and wrapping foil from consumer packaging.

It's not a binary choice of being 100% perfect or not bothering - it's about small, meaningful steps in a better direction.

Is it really "meaningful" to chop trees instead of using petroleum for single use items? I don't know exactly, but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will approach zero.

> I don't know exactly

You sum up a fundamental problem of the world so well - you don't know, but you damn well wont let that stop you from formulating a strong opinion about it!

The point of view I'm expressing is skepticism of one thing accompanied by basic knowledge of another. You, on the other hand, are all knowing and skepticism has no place for you.

> I don't know exactly, but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will approach zero.

Sorry, I couldn't see your healthy skepticism as it was blocked from view by your statement of fact.

The composition of the oceanic "garbage patches" is about 50% discarded fishing gear [1].

The stuff you tend to find washed up on beaches contains a large proportion of land-originated bits and bobs such as lighters, toothbrushes, and beach sandals, but also a large fraction of already-partly-decomposed plastic fragments, impossible to ascribe to any particular source [2].

Personally I'm not in favour of an outright ban (give me back my 100 W lightbulbs and 2000 W vacuum cleaners!) but EU-wide taxation could surely disincentivize plastic cutlery with respect to bamboo or other decomposable.

[1] https://ocean.si.edu/conservation/pollution/marine-plastics [2] "Composition and potential origin of marine debris stranded in the Western Indian Ocean on remote Alphonse Island, Seychelles" Duhec et al. Marine Pollution Bulletin 96 (2015) 76–86

The best alternatives to plastic cutlery, cups and plates are reusable items. Hopefully the benefit of reusable vs disposable from an environmental perspective is obvious to you. When that is not an option, then bamboo, wood, and numerous other plant based items are much, much better than plastic. Depending on the source, they mostly have lower embodied energy, and more importantly they are able to easily undergo aerobic digestion to create a full carbon cycle. Even in a sealed landfill where oxygen is not present, they can be used in a waste to energy cycle without incineration. All plastics - all of them, including polyethylene and polypropylene which are most commonly used for these items, are endocrine disruptors. They are wreaking havoc on every biological organism on our planet, impacting reproduction in vital ways. Marks my words that plastics will be seen in twenty years as coal and fossil fuels are seen now. This is an existential threat to life as currently evolved to the same order as climate change. If our forbears had been using materials in this way, our world would be unrecognizable compared to what we see now.

Soon you'll also be required to offer your guests reusable toilet paper. Every little bit helps.

Start-up idea: provide cutlery on-demand! Lease your own cutlery! With delivery on-premise or pick-up option

What do you think people did before plastic items were so prevalent? It was not so long ago. Ask anyone over 75 to remember their childhood.

In the scenario you describe, you would probably get help planning the celebration and pool items from that group. Shops would likely begin to rent out utensils and such for these sort of situations if there was a need. It's not so hard to imagine alternatives.

Fun statistics:

  2010 total plastic marine debris[0]: 4,800k - 12,700k metric tons
  2010 EU plastic marine debris[0]: 50k-120k metric tons (Higher than the US by ~1k)
  2010 EU plastic marine debris percentage[0]: 1%
  2016 EU export of nontoxic garbage to a country in top 10 plastic marine waste[2]: 269,000 tonnes (a lot missing statistics so wide error bars here)
  2015 percent of nontoxic garbage export that is plastic/mixed[1]: ~9%
  Hours wasted digging through overly verbose pdfs and mislabled charts: Too many

  Probable amount of EU plastic that gets exported to top 10 country: 26.9k - 53.8k tonnes
  Crude adjusted EU ranking if 100% of the doubled amount makes it into the ocean: ~10th 
  Incredibly crude adjusted EU plastic marine debris percentage: 2%

Other stupid things learned: Netherlands imports hilarious amounts of garbage [3]

[0]: https://www.iswa.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Calendar_2011_03_... (the footnote of table 1 specifically)

[1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

[2]: http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do (You'll have to screw with the customizations to get useful statistics)

[3]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/waste/transboundary-waste-...

I wonder how that will interact with airlines usually using plastic cutlery in economy.

They'll probably just use one of the many greener alternatives.

In the UK I've started to notice the emergence of plastic alternatives, e.g. M&S have wooden cutlery for take away food now instead of plastic. It's good to see.

If only we could make some progress on disposable coffee cups...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-plan-...

Government launches plan to ban plastic straws, cotton-buds, and stirrers

Published 22 October 2018

What interests me is that the things I've noticed are not necessarily things included in new legislation.

It suggests to me that the intervention is prompting businesses to consider their all round plastic use (i.e. they're making proactive change expecting upcoming legislation) or they're responding to consumer opinion.

Either way, this is a really positive step. Also, more importantly, the public seem supportive. I think the success of the 5p plastic bag charge has made people rethink their opposition to green schemes.

The paper straws that have become commonplace in UK cafes are terrible. They get all soft an ruin the taste of drinks.

I understand there is a problem, I just don’t think we’re nowhere near good solutions.

There are good paper straws out there, they're just a tiny bit more expensive.

Dumb, this is a waste management issue almost 100%

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