Comment by duxup | Hacker News Reader

Comment by duxup | Hacker News Reader

I suspect there is some value in pushing such content off of large sites to reduce the surface area available for recruitment.

I used to think that pushing such content off a site or forum was futile and calling it for what it is on a site had value, I'm not sure that is the case anymore.

If you look on platforms like reddit and such where you have groups in subreddits calling for race wars, general hatred, and violence and of course the lesser efforts to just normalize hate takes place... there's no discussion anyway. In their own subs any hint of anything less than absolute commitment to their talking points of the day, ever changing theories, and general hatred is an instant ban from their subreddit(s). Then they venture out spam their fake news articles / take over other subs and push their message with endless streams of new accounts. There is no discussion, just constant spam, memes and etc.

We've seen topics like Gamergate, incels and such (while not that tasteful to begin with) quickly pulled to the extreme and go from something about "gaming journalism" or general angst to an identity movement steeped in fear / hate, harassment, and for some actual violence.

I suspect there may be some value in ushering these people away, if only to prevent recruitment of some others who otherwise might avoid their message that fear or dissatisfaction with life and other problems can be explained with hate.

>calling it for what it is on a site had value,

The terrifying thought is that this might be a product of scale more than anything else.

Because of the bullshit asymmetry principle, it's easier to produce propaganda than debunk it and "call it what it is," so any sufficiently large and scaled platform will almost certainly eventually be flooded with propaganda bullshit.

Has anyone touched on a sustainable solution to this?

Minimum wage human shit-sponges with limited mental health benefits are the current industry standard.

I spend most of my time on Reddit, and you’re spot on here. Deplatforming is the most effective way to fight the spread of hate. It’s literally a cancer, and it’s goinf to take the chemo therapy of stepping on the toes of free speech to protect our country and society.

Sucks, but that’s what it takes - especially when they wrap themselves up in the flag and hide behind the first amendment to spew their hate.

You are not forced to look at subreddits that offend you.

> hide behind the first amendment

I think people need to hide behind first amendment, you misunderstand what it is.

Not if your speech is advocating for the erosion of the rights of others’ speech. Just as there is a paradox of tolerance, there is a paradox of free speech, and the hate groups use it to great effect in this country.

>You are not forced to look at subreddits that offend you.

I think this is the greatest misconception about the push for de-platforming. The goal is to remove the platform from becoming an echo chamber for racism/hate/violence not to stop people from being offended by content they dislike. By removing mainstream sites as options to promote hatered/racism/violence it's likely that it will make a measurable reduction in people joining these groups as there will be less traffic.

>Deplatforming is the most effective way to fight the spread of hate.

As evidenced by what?

From everything I see, deplatforming creates filter bubbles, which lead to radicalization, which lead to hate.

After the rise of deplatforming tactics in the last 5 years, American society is more radicalized than before.

have to agree here. deplatforming is definitely not the answer. To use a crude but fundamental analogy, if you want to reduce the concentration of something you need to dilute it not separate it from the rest

I think it’s the best tool we have, and we can either use that tool or twiddle our thumbs while this problem gets worse.

As for your dilution analogy, deplatforming does have that effect because it breaks up the filter bubbles of the hate groups. It makes the media feedback loop of hate more difficult for those caught in that. From the perspective of those considering the hate, their input has been diluted.

There have been a few informal studies that have shown its effectiveness. Additionally, the mechanism for action is clear - deplatforming actually breaks up the very filter bubbles that allow hate to become organized. It makes it harder for those seeking to spread hate, and gives more of an opportunity to consider alternatives for those who are perhaps caught in the drain of that bubble.

In that case, we should ban /r/politics, the_don, shitredditsays, latestagecapitalism, news and worldnews, and every other obviously partisan subreddit, because by time they're obviously partisan, they're downvoting and banning any dissent shared within their community, and thus are spreading hate of everyone who doesn't conform to their extremist bubble standards. We should also perma-shadowban all users who contributed any posts or comments to any of those communities, because they are agents of hate. We should only leave the most abstract or concrete communities focused on real things with nothing but objective curiosity, like gaming, or DIY, or buildapc.

I think the current discourse if far more polarized than it was maybe 5 years ago. I think your assessment is delusional if you think your country and society got saved to any degree. On the contrary.

Describing groups of humans as a cancer is stage 4 of the ten stages of genocide:

http://genocidewatch.net/genocide-2/8-stages-of-genocide/

You’re engaging in behavior with truly horrifying antecedents.

I’m describing the spread of hateful ideas as a cancer, not the people themselves. We use the description of “virality” to describe the meme or idea, not that the people sharing are viruses. Same thing here.

>Gamergate <went> from something about "gaming journalism" or general angst to an identity movement steeped in fear / hate, harassment, and for some actual violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6TrKkkVEhs

According to ^this video, gamergate actually started out as the latter and only later claimed to be the former.

It blended very quickly from the start, but the claims about "gaming journalism" while hallow as far as their actual activity, was IMO a semi legitimate claim as far as some of the initial outrage..... but really it moved on quickly and didn't matter.

All those patriarchal forums are the top-end of a stochastic terrorism funnel.

1. [The Pewdiepipeline](https://youtu.be/pnmRYRRDbuw] 2. [Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars from 4chan and Tumblr to Trump and the Alt-Right](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34858587-kill-all-normies)

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