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Comment by syndacks | Hacker News Reader

I recently visited Amsterdam and was blown away by the cycling infrastructure there (I live in NYC and cycle daily).

I realized, though, that unlike many American cities, Amsterdam came of age way before the automobile. The US has a fetish with cars.

Therefore, it's impossible to compare the two countries' cycling infrastructures. The link you shared is so far beyond anything we have in the US; you can't simply say "this is how it should be done".

Instead, we have to start somewhere small and make incremental changes until a tipping point ocurrs. Add more bike lanes, introduce bike share programs, etc. Since I've lived in NYC the amount of cyclists has increased steadily. I'm hopeful this trend will occur as programs like OP are continually introduced.

Overall I agree with you, I just think the historical contexts are fundamentally different. American cities will approach Amsterdam...in a few hundred years :)

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> I realized, though, that unlike many American cities, Amsterdam came of age way before the automobile. The US has a fetish with cars.

No, Amsterdam also loved cars. It was activism that turned it into a bicycle heaven.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bic...

Fair enough, but Amsterdam originally loved bikes. From your link:

>At the start of the 20th century, bikes far outnumbered cars in Dutch cities and the bicycle was considered a respectable mode of transport for men and women.

I don't believe this was ever the case in a major US city.

Nonetheless, the activism bit is news for me so thanks for sharing. I'd still argue, though, that the activism is largely due to the fact that that there was a history of bikes before cars.

> I don't believe this was ever the case in a major US city.

This is completely inaccurate. Americans loved bikes at the start of the 20th century too. Cars didn't exist, or were unreliable, or incredibly expensive.

E.g., https://www.vox.com/2015/6/30/8861327/bike-lanes-history

See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY6PQAI4TZE, about the Amsterdam neighbourhood De Pijp fight for a play street without cars in 1972.

Thank you for this link. I moved to Amsterdam less than three years ago, and the difference between what is shown in the video and how the whole city is now is just unbelievable. It's a testament and a lesson on how it's possible to really vastly transform things for better, with time and will.

Hemonystraat, one of the streets cited in the video, now:

https://www.google.it/maps/@52.3567496,4.9026422,3a,58.5y,13...

Amsterdam has a different layout than most US cities but it became a car city much like everywhere else. They fought to change. This is what the Dutchs did

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bic...

Let's not ignore the fact that Amsterdam is almost completely flat.

So is New York City

Ebikes have recently become really good and they flatten all hills with ease.

Yeah but regulation in EU makes them nearly useless, it's illegal to put in >250W engine and it can only assist to human torque.

How is that nearly useless? Have you tried keeping up with someone on an e-bike? Most people will not manage it.

I need to ride up a hill that even my car has problems with. There are many more similar hills in my city (around 1.5~3 million people).

Have you ever used a 250w ebike? They are incredibly powerful and they also come with gearing much lower than cars. The power on an ebike does not limit how steep you can go. I took a 250w ebike up a path so steep I had my chin on the handlebars to stop the front wheel lifting off the ground and the motor was powering me up fine.

I did, I had to pedal the exact hill I'm talking about and it definitely wasn't easy; I sweat through my suit because of that. Sold (back to the shop) the bike the next day. Instead of it I got an illegal chinese e-scooter that has 800w and is just perfect in every way. Never had a problem with the police, btw. Sadly I had to give my business to a Chinese supplier instead of local.

I live in UK/EU and use an e-bike. There are a few steep roads near where live that I would never attempt on my old bike that are a breeze to ride with the e-bike. I like that it's peddle assist only. I still get the benefit of the exercise, but I'm not dripping with sweat when I travel to work/meetings.

I accept that but wouldn't it be better if we both had a choice that suits us? My city has hills that even my car has problems with.

Ebikes whip up hills with ease that lower power cars struggle on. The main limiting factor is they are limited to 25km/h by motor power but even that isn't too bad.

I have a 250watt ebike. I’d agree pretty powerful, I usually use it one the lowest setting which provides minimal boost, even up hills.

I’m in The us and the assist cuts out at 20mph. I get that since I’m sharing the roads and paths with other bikes/joggers and cars (and the ocational electric skateboard/kick scooter). I tend to ride much faster with the ebike and can see how this added power can get me into more trouble.

I really enjoy the boost though.

In my experience the danger zone when cycling on a mixed traffic bike path (pedestrians, slow bikes, etc) starts at 25 km/h, which is about the double of the speed of the casual or low range cyclist. 20 mph (32 km/h) is too fast for the other traffic. They don't expect to have so little time to react and get scared (even if the cyclist does everything and saw them since long before, they only have to keep doing what they were doing). Furthermore with a normal bike it's a waste of energy so when traffic increases I slow down because the average speed doesn't change much if I sprint between each group of pedestrians/slow bikes. I understand that with an engine you can do a lot more of stop and go but please don't scare people too much, it makes them hate all cyclists.

It is totally legal to have a > 250 W engine, but then you no longer qualify as a cyclist. (need to have number pöates etc.)

Which is sad, but also my 250 W engine takes me up all hills on roads and only very steep mountains offroad are too much

Why don‘t you just buy an e-Vespa?

Going on roads is dangerous and longer than using bike paths

So what you really want is ride a motorcycle on a bikeway..

Eh, no. I said nothing about changing the speed limit or anything else. Stop putting words into my mouth.

Amsterdam also has high average wind speed. Headwinds can slow you down just as much as hills, and crosswinds make it harder to control the bike. Most energy spent while cycling goes to overcoming wind resistance, and it's easy to underestimate how important it is if you don't cycle regularly.

Switzerland is full with bycicles and it isn't properly flat

New York City got its modern street plan in 1810.

The only cities "designed for cars" are probably Phoenix, Tucson, and greater LA, every other American city saw its establishment and principal growth when walking, cycling, and horse riding was the norm.

I spent a few weeks in north New Jersey last year and, as someone who cycles to work every day in my hometown, I was appalled to find absolutely no infrastructure for bicycles. None at all. I felt trapped; it’s like if you don’t own a car you don’t exist. To add insult to injury, public transportation is almost non-existent. US cities have a very long way to go...

FWIW, NYC also came of age before the age of the automobile.

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