AirPods Are Disposable and Hard to Recycle (2016) | Hacker News Reader

AirPods Are Disposable and Hard to Recycle (2016)

ifixit.org

44 pointsokket68 comments

I respect iFixit's ideals, but this is just ridiculous. Highlighting the lack of repairability in a MacBook Pro is one thing, but AirPods are a marvel of compact engineering. There's barely room for the battery; there is positively no room in there to replace glue with clips or screws so that a few tinkerers can try to fix them at home. Plus, you can replace just the earbuds or the case on its own (it's unlikely you'll break both at the same time) for ~$60.

You may have noticed the planet is struggling under the impact of plastics, consumerism and other human activity.

There is no room as currently designed to fit a screw in there as they were designed to use glue. Had they designed them to be repairable it's unlikely they'd have become huge and useless, just subtly different, perhaps with a tamper proof bolt in the base of each.

As I've aged I see steadily less and less consideration for the environment and repair, and more and more greenwashing and press releases about company's environmental credentials. It really is about time people called bullshit more often, and more loudly.

Is the planet struggling because an average person may buy two AirPods in two years? Or because an average person consumes 220 pounds (100 kg) of plastic in one year?

For comparison, one AirPod weighs 0.008 pounds (0.004 kg).

Maybe making this particular product more repairable or more recyclable isn't going to save the planet, but the status quo is that consumer goods are disposable and short-lived, and that's the real problem.

Keep in mind, the cost of waste of a product is not only the product itself, but also its packaging, marketing materials, etc.

Companies know they can make products that will become waste in a short period of time, which increases profitability because people will have to buy things more frequently. The cost of disposal gets pushed onto society, with companies taking little or no responsibility for it.

Google could make a much larger environmental impact by requiring that Android licensees stop forcing obsolescence through their refusal to provide security updates for otherwise functional devices.

There is no reason why phones with current specs couldn't be supported for at least five years.

"You'll get two years of support if you're lucky" is just insane.

If Airpods were a naturally occurring resource, you'd have a point. As it happens though, there's a huge supply chain behind producing Airpods, involving mining rare earth elements for the batteries and silicon, and shipping these components around the world both for production and delivery.

It's less weight than attitude it reveals that concerns me. Time was even micro headphones were a miracle of almost watchmaking.

Designing to permit repair and end-of-life disassembly should be standard to permit, and perhaps mandate, end-of-life recycling until the average person consumes no plastic, despite using 20kg.

AirPods being a technological marvel does not negate the fact that its disposable nature is a pretty big problem. As far as I am concerned, if the environmental cost of the existence of a product is not factored in to its design, it should not exist.

This may be a bit of a stretch, but on the same token, K-Cups being super convenient does not negative the fact that they are an ecological nightmare.

What I'm saying is there's probably no reasonable way, given the current state of the art, to create an equivalent product in a more repairable form. The comparison to k-cups seems overblown, as a person throws away a couple of those a day, whereas AirPods are quality devices (of a similar size) that will last years at the minimum.

iFixit rightly makes noise about the pointless unrepairability of some other Apple devices, but this one just feels like they're reaching.

K-cups are absolutely awful for the environment – I'd argue much much worse than Airpods/consumer electronics. Keurig's entire business is built off of throwing plastic away. They even take measures [1] to make sure you can't re-use their pods. And it's not like throwing plastic away is a "necessary evil" of making coffee - no other mainstream method (drip, aeropress, pourover, moka pot, french press) produces waste that isn't compostable.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5465578/keurig-locking-dow...

K-cups are created to be thrown away after one use. AirPods are not.

It is a stretch. Millions of K-Cups are intentionally disposed of daily. I doubt that more than 100 AirPods are disposed of daily, probably closer to 10-20. That will naturally accelerate as they get towards their end of life, but the comparison is ridiculous.

If 10 million airpod units had an average lifespan of 5 years, they would be disposed at a rate of 5480/day.

There’s no question that K-cups are a bigger ecological problem, though.

Gasoline weighs about 6 pounds a gallon. It's made from the same stuff as plastic.

Landfills aren't perfect, but they aren't an ecological nightmare and there's lots of room for them outside of places like New York City.

Landfills absolutely are an ecological nightmare in some parts of the world, and much of it is trash that was shipped in from elsewhere. That your local landfill doesn’t bother you does not mean your trash won’t end up leaching toxic chemicals in to the waterways of people in some far off land.

It'll likely become more of an issue for people numb to the point as these places refuse more and more of our refuse.

I don't put toxic chemicals in my trash though, so there's that.

You absolutely do though, that's the point.

You think that the e-waste you sent to recycling doesn't end up in trash, but you only have to look at places like Agbogbloshie, Accra, Ghana to see where some supposedly reputable recycling ends up.

Their reporting of the non repairability seems mostly factual and drama free to me, in what way is it ridiculous or disproportionate ?

Also I think it would dishonest to just ignore or brush off these kind of issues for products that we see as marvel of engineering. Any choice has tradeoffs, recognizing the product strengths should go hand in hand with also acknowledging what it sacrifices.

For a single customer it might be not worth to do that kind of analysis, but I expect reviews and teardowns to highlight these dark spots we otherwise don’t think about as simple consumers.

They say it makes them ‘cry’ and it’s a ‘hot mess’.

Because we will see them in millions

Fine, but crying and hot messes are dramatics not facts.

There are actual facts in the article and a summary of facts at the bottom. Most humans find a list of facts a bit boring to read so we like to spice up our language and use metaphors and hyperbole.

> we like to spice up our language and use metaphors and hyperbole

Yes I know - dramatics.

I thought it was just adding some style/personality to the writing. Rather than saying "We were disappointed by the messy internals."

It hardly felt dramatic.

Like cigarette butts

When I smoked I used a small “pocket can” that was shaped like a trash can to hold my butts until I came back around to a proper garbage can. I then switched to non-filters and, even though they lack the cellulose filter, I still used the can.

I hate seeing cigarette butts everywhere. It might be because my first job in high school was sweeping the parking lot.

Man I contributed to that mess. Did not care.

Lol, I often will pick them up today. I do not smoke now.

Good on you for the can, back then.

I would pick them up these days, but in my part of the country it’s almost dangerous to touch anything from a stranger that could be personal use. Rampant IV drug abuse and exploding hepatitis cases.

It might be paranoia, but I don’t touch anything that could be personal use.

Gloves are what I use.

With you otherwise.

>Plus, you can replace just the earbuds or the case on its own (it's unlikely you'll break both at the same time) for ~$60.

this is the exact opposite of iFixit's ideals. What do you want them to do? not talk about this product at all?

Exactly.

Some of us avoid things we cannot easily repurpose and or service.

IFixit gets to do what they are doing, and I support it 100 percent.

Frankly, if what they are doing generates this much controversy?

Good. More people thinking reuse, repair, repurpose is fantastic!

How can I help?

I know HN doesn't appreciate this sort of comment, but the idea that Airpods represent some sort of progress is the dumbest idea in the whole world. "Before Airpods, I had to occasionally modify my behavior to avoid pulling on a cord! That effort was abject suffering, and I don' know how I ever got along before!"

The comment was about engineering marvel though, not lifestyle progress.

The batteries in the new Samsung Buds are replaceable according to iFixit https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown...

Wrist watches are marvels of compact engineering. Wrist watches are also repairable. These ear buds are, well, ear buds with integrated batteries. Batteries are known to wear out, this goes double for the smaller versions which are used in this type of application as those don't have much of a power reserve to account for normal wear.

If you ask me what a true 'marvel of engineering' in ear bud land would look like it would most certainly not be a glued-together throw-away product like Apple produces. It would have replaceable batteries, most likely screwed to the device with small screws (viz. the aforementioned wrist watches) or using an integral thread. The price Apple asks for these things gives more than enough room for this extra bit of engineering and hardware.

The fact that Apple offers a replacement for ~$60 does not change this, the devices will still end up on the scrap heap.

Just 60? Apple sure warps one's perspective on prices. These are just headphones, but at $60 nothing should be considered disposable. That's the daily takehome for a huge number of americans.

I didn't say that makes them "disposable". Apple could've forced you to spend another $140 if any part of package broke; instead they allow you to "repair" them by replacing just the part that's broken. That seems like a pretty reasonable middle ground.

disposable != short lifespan

Yeah it is when there is no other use.

That is a lot of money.

They are a marvel, yet a fail on many fronts.

Getting rid of that wire is proving super expensive.

A phone speaker and great earbuds, that cost $20, and that work well with every audio device I have (some from the 70's and 80's), are a no brainer value wise.

No charging. No pairing. No DRM. No losing just one. No, no, no :D

Audio just is not worth that level of complexity and hassle.

As for the few tinkerers...

Lived my life fixing things. I do not plan on changing that. I can find 6 figures of value in that skill without even thinking hard.

And frankly? Airpods do not sound as good as my $20 pair of earbuds do.

Impressive technically. No question.

Value? Dubious on a good day.

This is so wrong that it’s clear that you haven’t tried the product in any significant capacity.

No one who’s tried the product in a significant capacity would say any of these things.

I would, and I'm on my second set. Battery life sucks, sound quality is mediocre at best.

I have a single use case which makes the lack of a cord slightly more convenient, but I won't be replacing them again when this set dies.

You would be wrong on all points.

I have used the product. I've used a fair number of Apple designed earbuds and frankly liked none of them.

Apple does not appear to understand how to design for acoustics anywhere near as well as they do other design elements. It's not a bad sound, I would say competent, but that's it.

Totally not worth the other negatives. For all the hassles, the things should sound golden. They don't.

Sorry.

What I find hilarious is just how bent people get when they encounter negative opinions related to Apple products. I like a few Apple products. My 2012 MBP is awesome. Love that computer. Hate most of the other ones for various reasons. It's hit or miss with Apple.

Ports matter. Headphone jack matters. SD, all of it. Getting rid of Magsafe was a bummer too.

People who really believe in their Airpods need to be secure in that. Trust me, those of us who don't believe are absolutely not gonna be swayed, except...

For when Apple does better. They can, should, need to.

Tell you what. Go get a set of the earbuds that ship with Samsung flagship phones.

These, in fact: https://www.overstock.com/Electronics/2-Pack-AKG-Samsung-Gal...

Fucking amazing. Good, flat response. Almost no internal resonance. Cheap ass, last a very long time, and they work well with most any audio device made in the last, what? 60 plus years?

Here's the thing: I like good sound. I like low hassles. I like great audio gear.

Wire? Pffft. Non issue.

These wireless devices do not yet have the priorities right. It's audio first and foremost.

Now, for people who don't care? Great! People who don't mind charging and managing a bunch of shit? Great!

But, that's just not me, and I know full well I am not alone in any of that, which makes the statement, "No one who’s tried the product in a significant capacity would say any of these things." weak sauce. Really weak, as in perhaps your sample of "no one" needs to be a bit larger.

You like the things? Great!

I don't. And am more than happy to tell anyone why.

Now, should Apple go and do the work that AKG did? Design for replacement batteries, 5 to 10 year life? Yeah, I'll think about another go; otherwise, I just bought 6 EXCELLENT earbuds, for the $60 mentioned as "replacement", and those are probably a 5 to 10 year supply. No joke.

In your rant, you’ve missed the entire point of the product and you continue to. Criticism of Apple is fine, but this is a complete misunderstanding of intent and the intentional tradeoffs made in the product design.

It’s never been about audio quality or ports or lasting 60 years. That’s not at all why this product exists. I urge you to truly consider the “why”.

And Apple’s clear understanding of the “why” is why AirPods have been an incredible success, sell out regularly, and get rave reviews. If Apple listened to audiophiles or just made headphones like everyone else, they wouldn’t have achieved a fraction of thr success or created meaningful progress in the headphone market.

I have AKGs, I have Sennheisers, and I have Sonys. I use my AirPods the most out of any of my headphones - even to my own surprise. They’re the single best product I’ve purchased in the last decade. That’s how much I simply love them and how much they’ve changed my relationship with audio.

Not to mention AirPods will soon become a computing platform. The most recent ones have the compute power of an iPhone 4, in each single pod. It’s only a matter of time. Apple is playing the long game of ambient computing - a game of chess if you will, while you and other audiophiles want them to skip rope in the park.

Which is it?

"No one would say those things?"

"Works as intended?"

This, "just use it and you will understand" idea is bullshit. It is entirely possible to use a product and not see the intended value as actual use value.

That is precisely what I mean about this and other products making strong tradeoffs.

I never made a works 60 years requirement. Let's just set that one aside as the botch it is. :D

If you read my original post, I completely understand the trade-offs, said the things were a marvel, which they are, and then proceeded to say the net value is not there!

That is a result of those trade-offs!

Ambient computing is spiffy. (I get that too) Thought I wanted that. Realize I really do not.

The always connected use case is dubious. Let Apple play. They get to do that, and again, I like some of what Apple does, and am a fan of the company from way back. Still own and use an Apple //e (fun projects and writing)

Like all pioneering efforts, there will be issues. And there will be people like me, who are not about the effort, and or feel the trade-offs needed fall short of delivering use value needed for it to all make sense.

At any given time, Apple sells to a segment of the population who receives its efforts well. Great. That happened for me when they produced exemplary UNIX laptops with great performance, sexy hardware and the ports I need to actually do things with low hassle.

(The we will not need ports is a long, closed game I want no real part of)

They are not the only game in town for good reasons too.

Skip rope is a nice one. :D Well played.

IPad as toddler device is my equally well played retort. (And the majority of what my iPad does, the other use being to serve up movies. )

Nice hardware, too damn bad about how locked down it is. There are very different kinds of people out there.

Rather than imply people are stupid, or some other inane thing, you and the others bashing hard on negative Apple commentary, really should be having "why" conversations to better understand others, and why they value things the way they do.

You also get to invest and evangelize. I will never downvote, or get at you personally for it.

Compute power of an iPhone 4, sans replaceable battery, for example, is not a selling point for me. With one? Maybe, and that is no joke. Depends on the ecosystem associated with it.

These short life, fundementally disposable products are ultra expensive in terms of materials, resources, and for many, due to soul crushing economic policy sucking them near dry, expensive in simple financial terms. One could literally say these spiffy, "future here now" products are subsidized by things like lack of great health care in the US.

(And to take the development risks needed for this kind of thing, a lot of cash is needed.)

Open, so I can put code on it? Even better. I should look at the Samsung product one day.

I have yet to do that because I have yet to see use value equal to costs, inclusive (financial, personal, etc..) for wearables to make any sense.

And to be ultra clear, try and get there. It is all good.

Also know when I say, "maybe we do not need Airpods", that too is no shallow slam. And this comment explains a bit of why that is.

Getting there may just not be a place many people will want to be. That needs to be OK too.

Some have said to me,"people like you are why we might not get there." My answer is always the same, "then maybe we just do not need to get there."

Should anything I say be a threat of some kind, why not just say that, rather than the inane crap.

You do get full credit for urging me to consider the why. Many don't. Well played too.

This is just stupid.

Just take AirPods to an Apple store in any corner of the world or simply ship directly to them to recycle almost any product.

https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in

iFixIt is just disingenuous in that they have a fixed view of what’s acceptable and it highly favors their own business. Their content parades as an objective viewpoint but isn’t by a longshot.

The average Western European/North American consumes 220 pounds of plastic per year. A pair of AirPods (0.016 pounds) are 0.007% of that figure. I think there are much bigger categories in our plastic consumption that we might want to target before AirPods.

Love my AirPods, but if they can't even get a battery replacement that's a huge downside.

As for disposal, like any electronic apple will at the minimum help recycle them for you (as will others like best buy)

We definitely have new problems like k cups but our electronics tend to be much smaller than those of old. More people are Marie Kondoing too. Just think of all the waste we are avoiding just by virtue of digital games, music, books,and movies.

There's still hope to be had, though we need to REDUCE across the board.

I don’t like the narrative of ifixit, you cannot have this tiny a device and have it build with bolts and screws.

I’d like to know if there’s any competitor on this category (Samsung galaxy buds, pixel buds) that doesn’t have the same problem.

Besides, no battery can last forever, they all degrade, that’s how the current tech works unfortunately. I do want Apple to offer cheaper battery replacement, right now replacing the battery of the AirPods and case equals to a brand new set of AirPods.

iFixit has done a teardown of Samsung galaxy buds and rates them more favorably than AirPods: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown...

that's from 2016

And with the popularity of the product, the environmental concerns of the unrepairability are even greater and more relevant today.

I admit that I know next to nothing about hardware engineering, but I can’t fathom how it would be possible to continue to miniaturize consumer products at scale while maintaining durability, quality and keeping them repair friendly? Would love some one with the right background to explain how they would design an AirPod like device that could be fixed by your average repair professional/shop/dealer/etc (let alone me at home).

Recyclability is a concern though!

Maybe miniaturization isnt really a great goal?

At some point we are going to have to start trading convenience for environment

Maybe we don't need airpods.

I find it hard to imagine that a product which lasts 2 years and is smaller than a shot glass can be much of an environmental concern. I would have to throw away 10000 pairs of airpods to match the volume in a landfill of throwing out a single TV. Similarly, 10000 pairs of airpods use about as much raw materials as that single TV. This just seems like the wrong battle to fight

And who repairs flatscreen TVs? A very small percentage of the market

Ahh to be back in the 90’s where our only environmental concerns were 9v, AA and D-cell batteries

CRT tubes, Asbestos, Dioxin, yeah, the last decades of the 20th Century were just great.

Thanks! Added.

Isn’t the environmental impact lowered by how expensive it is? By getting AirPods they’re likely to spend less on other stuff that has a higher environmental impact, like plane tickets, right?

That feels wrong. For one, the environmental cost of goods/services are not reflected in their prices, currently. Further, AirPods are luxury goods. Purchasers are probably already high carbon users.

Also, they make you look so dumb. Wearing-Q-Tips-and-being- proud-of-it-dumb. About 8.5 on the Google Glass Index.

9.5 if you wear them while riding electric monocycles.

11 if you wear them with the dont-lose-it-strap

https://www.amazon.com/Spigen-AirPods-Pending-Connector-Airp...

This is highly subjective. Almost no one in the real world is obsessed with how "dumb" a pair of wireless earbuds looks.

Are you sure? Aesthetics is a huge part of the success of a product. A lot of wireless earbuds are much larger, and thus AirPods are much more desirable (they look less stupid). People absolutely buy mostly based on aesthetics, provided the functionality is reasonable. In fact, I argue that this is why most people buy Apple products...

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