I might be wrong, the OP might be the happiest person ever: I’m just picking up a lot of different signals from this project and the writing in it.
Many (most? all?) single, heterosexual men are somewhat preoccupied with how to be attractive to women (the reverse is also true). Is this news to you?
I also have a negative reaction to you speculating about how "bleak" his life is. I see this project as an attempt at absolute honesty. And if we're being honest, doesn't everyone's life contain a fair amount of bleakness? We all have insecurities. We all suffer tragedies. We're all wrong about various things. Your comment seems basically uncharitable.
I wouldn't attempt to be honest about "everything I know" publicly, on the internet. But I think a little charity is in order towards those who do make that attempt.
> I see this project as an attempt at absolute honesty. And if we're being honest, doesn't everyone's life contain a fair amount of bleakness? We all have insecurities. We all suffer tragedies. We're all wrong about various things.
It is difficult to be genuine in this world, at least for me. I am afraid of people's judgements, whether real or imagined. It takes a lot of courage on the part of the OP to put out this sort of work, opening themselves and their beliefs to the scrutiny of anyone who chooses to read it.
However, my response to reading this post and the blog/wiki was very different than some of the more positive responses here. Ergo, the counter argument. I didn't get the positive weird/quirky feeling, rather the opposite.
Of course you're entitled to those thoughts, but I think it's a good idea to couch them differently or at least to get into the reason why you had that reaction.
I can understand a negative reaction to a project like this. There's some amount of narcissism involved in writing down everything I know and then publishing it. There's also some amount of narcissism involved in writing anything at all and assuming that other people will be interested in it. There's also narcissism in me reacting negatively to your comment and then criticizing your post, as if I have something worthwhile that I want to transmit to you. Yeah, yeah: "All is vanity". But we want people to write things down and share them, right? We want people to communicate, say what they think, and risk being wrong or creepy, right?
My general thoughts are, when criticizing something something like this, err on the side of charity. Negative reactions are fine, but couch them and explain them.
But I think it's very unfair to say it paints a very bleak picture of his life. I jumped straight to the Seduction section after your comment, half-expecting some kind of PUA crap. But it's just filled with the kind of solid advice you get from your dad. Maintain eye contact. Don't slouch. Be honest and genuine. Compliment effort, not intrinsic beauty. Flirt with body language and small amounts of touch, but don't be aggressive. It's all pretty standard, solid stuff.
Well, you naturally want to look a woman in the eyes if you are genuinely attracted to her, it's hard to resist.
If you need a manual on maintaining eye contact, you probably just want to have sex with somebody, if not with this woman, than with another one.
The creepy part is that this section in wiki teaches you to simulate feelings you don't actually have in order to get laid and this directly contradicts the earlier section about being genuine.
The bleak part is that if you need to simulate attraction to a woman you are missing something very good in your life.
The bleak part is that if you need to simulate attraction to a woman you are missing something very good in your life."
Did you read the same part as I?
" the most important thing in any kind of relationship is honesty. In regards to seduction it is being honest with your intentions."
And the part about eye contact is not about simulating feelings, it is about what to focus for (those who are insecure), if you want to to get in deeper contact.
Or your path through life didn't teach you prevailing mating rituals. That "it comes natural" narrative is bullshit. Sure, will be the case most of the time. But, you know, human experiences are on a wide spectrum, with many of them fucked up in some way or another. And thus a lot of people can greatly benefit from finding help to improve themselves and thus their mental health. I'd generally consider this a good thing. Especially on such an important topics as finding a significant other.
It's great you apparently naturally learned communication protocols regarding flirting / body language / etc. And yes, PUA stuff can quickly become toxic and not be to the benefit of all involved. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. And you implying everyone who isn't a natural or wants to get better must be "simulating feelings" is just... disappointing.
I'd bet that is not how you really feel.
How are you certain this is universally true? Seems like a pretty clear case of the typical minds fallacy. For people that don't 'naturally' maintain eye contact with women they are attracted to, 'simulating' that behavior does not imply that any feelings are being simulated.
I'm not sure if you're being serious here. Do you really think there don't exist any shy guys at all anywhere that find it hard to talk to attractive women or look them in the eyes? Seriously?
"And I like to approach girls I find attractive in real life (where appropriate) by saying hey and asking for their name."
But I think you're tapping into something deeper, something I was going to respond to in my original comment, but thought better of it because you [edit: they] hadn't actually made the argument at that point. Now you've flirted much more closely with it, so I will say it:
There is a modern suspicion of the entire concept of teaching men how to raise their sexual value. There is a sense that it involves "faking it" somehow, or that it represents an unhealthy obsession, or means the man is only interested in sex. But it's this taboo which permits the distasteful 'PUA' community to flourish - it pushes the practice of self-conscious improvement to the fringes, where taboos are disregarded. It's a dangerous state of affairs when a man's best hope at improving their lot is toxic misogyny. Far better if there's easy access to good, practical advice that works, alongside a healthy worldview.
It's notable that the taboo is only for men - we don't assume a woman "probably just wants to have sex", just because she puts on lipstick (the purpose of which is to simulate attraction!)
(It would be interesting to further explore the sexual politics behind this taboo, and why the corresponding one for women is so much weaker, despite male noises about "preferring girls who don't wear makeup", and in particular how such taboos are powerful weapons in the 'battle of the sexes' that improve the ability to distinguish fitness levels in the opposite sex - but it's a fairly hot can of worms that I'd rather just allude to than attempt to untangle here.)
Putting on makeup doesn't create an illusion of having emotions one doesn't really feel.
Anyway. The precise function of makeup varies, but the specific case of lipstick is, as I already alluded to, designed to subconsciously simulate attraction through the mimicking of flushed lips. That's pretty much exactly the "illusion of having emotions one doesn't really feel" - and far more directly sexual than merely holding eye contact.
Unfortunately, this has resulted in me never having had a relationship, despite being well into my 30s now.
I have close female friends who enjoy my company, so I know I’m not completely repulsive to women. I don’t think I come across as creepy or desperate (I don’t even particularly care about sex). I just never learned the necessary skills for starting a relationship. I wouldn’t know what the early stages even looked like.
The likely future for me, if I don’t change something, is that I never find a partner. I’m not lonely or anything, I’m just worried that I’m missing out on an important part of the human experience. And I’m not sure how to remedy the situation without learning to fake what appears to come naturally to everyone else.
If this is what you risk when sharing on the internet, then maybe highly curated social media and the anxiety that it brings had it right all along.
We need more of this. More weirdness, more real human beings. If you don't like something, move along. Also, you never are the only one.
The "if you don't like it, move along" argument is fine in general and I support it 100%, but in this case a bit strange as posting something to HN is mostly to get responses / views / arguments, not just gushing adoration.
Absolutely. While I do mind your opinion, I don't mind you giving your opinion.
> The "if you don't like it, move along" argument is fine in general
There is actually a lot of issues that I would have people take a firm stance against more often, instead of just letting it slide. This just happens to not be one of them.
I don't think OP is creepy at all, everything in here is normal and very honest.
I'd be far more likely to call them out on their Minimalism topic, as they clearly are far to the extreme on how much time they focus on documenting their life, which is not a minimalist pursuit.
Still, it is a personal site for a fellow human being, and I've always maintained that if someone if self-aware enough to make specific decisions on who they want to be, and how they want to live, they deserve respect for that.