Lax oversight, dubious testing in water tanks pose health risks
cityandstateny.com
cityandstateny.com
At this point, in my area it's required by law to have a hydrofoor when your building is 13 meters tall (or taller). No water tower allowed, and skipping the entire thing isn't allowed either. In the USA that would probably be regarded as 'nanny state', but this is a typical case where you cannot trust a company or installer or building owner to do this right by default, hurting basically everyone else. I'm not sure what hydrofoor translates to, but it's basically a pressuriser, pump, buffer tank in one, that you have in the technical room of your building, that is inspected by the water company which is inspected by the 'watershap' (not sure what that translates to), which is inspected by the government. It takes a whole lot of people doing it wrong on purpose before that chain fails and you get bad water.
Maybe, but... building codes and regulations != nanny state in my opinion. Nanny state is more like banning soda, supersize meals at restaurants, etc. to protect people from themselves.
"Sorry, but you can't be trusted to make good choices about what you put in your body, so we will make laws that force you to make better choices"
Incidentally, it's quite common that people can't be trusted to make good choices about such things.
Forcing people to make good choices isn't a priori absurd. See: seatbelts.
How much of that is being constantly bombarded with marketing (psychological priming) that brainwashes us into making poor decisions? Totally agree though, we as humans are our own worst enemies.
I'm more concerned with corporate control, especially re health care. I know people who have to walk in circles during meetings because their step count is too low for their weight, and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
Why should I, a skinny fit person with self control, not be allowed to buy a supersized meal after running a half marathon? I'm being punished because of the choices of the obese.
You might not like nanny state regulations as much if it impacted something important to you - like limiting internet usage for example.
"People have no self control when it comes to internet and especially social media usage, new ISP regulations will disconnect your internet temporarily if it detects you have been using social media for too many consecutive hours"
In contrast, obesity penalties at the level of some insurance companies is really extreme, to the extent of controlling their daily actions, and leading them to seriously consider use of dangerous weight loss drugs (amphetamines basically) and major gastric surgery.
There is no need to construct an enormous and improbable straw man if you want 'nanny state' regulations, there are plenty of examples. For example, alcohol sales policy. Why can you buy lite beer in many places in the US, but not full strength beer or wine or spirits? It isn't because of cheap drunks -- they are cheap and buying in bulk, a $40 bottle of wine isn't going to interest them. It is a hodge podge of local and state govt regulation with little tangible benefit.
The difference between good and bad regulations is often whether they are based on evidence and statistical re-evaluation, or knee-jerk politics. Well considered policy will identify groups that suffer detriment. I can't identify a group that will be harmed by discouraging discounted soda.
Collective rational thought also brought us such wonders as eugenics, phrenology...
I'm no fan of sugared beverages, nor do I consume them with any regularity, but it isn't my right to tell people they can't enjoy them because some people abuse them. Ordinary people have every option not to buy or keep soda in their house or near them at work; ordinary professional and personal interventions are sufficient to stop people from drinking them.
I have met a lot of obese people who avoid soda for its health risks, it is not a sufficient intervention on its own to change most people's dietary issues.
Now, if you want to talk about making soda, candy, sweet pastries, and low-value juice from SNAP, that's a different matter. It should not be criminal for me to put sugar in seltzer water and sell it to willing people.
Ostensibly not. Even more evident for people who smoke. Absolutely zero reason to do that, only negative effects. It's wreckless and careless behavior on anyone who allows it.
How about extending this to ending the war on drugs?
I'm in favor of (what I consider to be) non-nanny regulation around drugs though - ban advertising (I actually think alcohol ads should be banned as well) and certain drugs should only have generic labels listing chemical information, should be age-restricted, and behind-the-counter (by request only).
What if you don't want a fence? What if the HOA gets slowly subverted by a bunch of nosy types that just want to make sure everything is perfect and nobody steps out of line? The legal authority of an HOA is surprising in some parts of the US. Don't pay your dues and they can seize your property.
Your property values are going to increase if the area is desirable and the economy is doing well. You don't need a fascist HOA to take care of that.
North America has this unreasonable fixation on property values because of how over-invested most people are in their homes.
Flint, MI government intentionally exposed its people to lead poisoned water.
Just as note as well, in US cities the government generally is the water company, so we don't have the multiple layers you describe. There is some oversight of lower levels of government by higher levels, but that tends to be more auditory than inspectitory.
Why on earth are they still using wood? By now I would have expected them to have steel tanks with a steel roof on them, you know something a rodent can't just gnaw its way into.
I'm glad I read this. Now whenever I go to NY, I won't drink any water without having boiled it for three minutes first.
I guess there's no price you can put on health! (It certainly doesn't seem to count for much in this case.)
[1] The Hitch-Hiker's Guide has already supplanted the great Encyclopaedia Galactica as the standard repository of all knowledge and wisdom, for though it has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, it scores over the older, more pedestrian work [...] it is slightly cheaper
It sucks so bad. My brother and I got parasites from water at some restaurant in GA.
Down there they were able to help him, but up in the north, the Drs have no clue on how to deal with parasites. The most help I got was the Dr calling the pharmacy for me.
So my brother got meds from his Dr, sent them up here to get rid of the parasites. Now I'm dealing with some bacterial infections that no one can figure out.
I asked to have the same test done that my brother had that found all his issues relating to this. They replied with "Yes, we can do that test." Then they sent me to CT and for a colonoscopy which took 2 months before I could get in... all the while they couldn't "give advice" because they "don't know what my system is like."
I'm seeing the 4th opinion next week. It's been 4 1/2 months now, so maybe this one will care.
This is with the "good insurance" I keep hearing about.
Depending on when I call them during the month, I might owe money or I might not....
Before the colonoscopy, they said I would owe $500 for my deductible, which is correct.
Then I got there, they said I didn't need to pay anything, and I just got a bill yesterday for $2700. The insurance line items say they covered about $1300 of it. Now I get to fight insurance again because I shouldn't be paying anything over $500. I have 30 days before collections too.
I love paying for the privilege of fighting for insurance coverage.
Also fortunately, the tech industry is supremely concerned with ethics and public safety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_9RLbRZJr0
It's crazy that this is allowed to continue.
(Cuomo might do something if he can figure out how to name it after his dad, though.)
Where I grew up, at the start of the 20th century many children died in infancy from contaminated water and milk.
Also the gut is an 'immune privileged' part of the body, meaning that the immune system does not attempt to keep it sterile like the rest of the body.[2]
We need a healthy micro-biome for digestion and to synthesize vitamins etc, but this means that it's also relatively easy to get sick from contaminated water and food.
[1] The World Health Organization says that every year more than 3.4 million people die as a result of water related diseases, making it the leading cause of disease and death around the world.
This is not a new story.
Would this be considered a criminal offence? Even if so, unlikely that they would be charged I'm guessing.
https://data.cityofnewyork.us/Health/Rooftop-Drinking-Water-...
I found this article and data set on Data is Plural:
They say it’s something in the water that makes the bagels better, maybe it’s the water tanks.
There was a Dirty Jobs episode which featured Mike accompanying a water tank crew doing a roof top replacement. They shape the boards of wood at the shop, truck it in, and use manual labor to schlep the boards up to the roof. Old boards come back down the same way. No extremely expensive crane service or metal working necessary. So it is quite cost effective.
I'm not defending the code as written. However, there are a lot of complexities involved in retrofitting newer things to older buildings that are difficult to encapsulate in codes, hence the reason grandfathering provisions tend to be more generous than some people would like.
(again 2007, but NYT instead of a blog)
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/nyregion/thecity/03wate.h...
http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2007/09/wooden-water-ta...
(We learn from childhood that you should only drink filtered or boiled water; I wouldn't feel comfortable drinking water directly from the plumbing, precisely because you never know how clean the water tank and the pipes are.)
The main issue with water tanks is the water is stagnant and in warm/hot climates ideal for life.
Nowadays it's very easy to add a UV light to the interior of your water tanks to keep the interior sterile.
I had no idea they were real features in New York.
If you have the income to live in a New York City high rise, you should have the pride not to pay some scumbag to live in one with an unmitigated biohazard on the roof.
And of course, you and I both know that you'll be the first and only person in New York City who cared whether you were drinking clean water or not.
It's actually the largest city in the country, so clearly there's a demand for it. Which might have to do with it being the most important and vibrant city in the history of global civilization.
When reality is inconsistent with logic, it's time to check your assumptions.
Apply this attitude to storage of a fundamental resource: safe drinking water. There is negligence because people are in a hurry, or because things become so routine that the sanitation workers don't even pay attention anymore.
Personally, I drink all my water exclusively from a well. Untouched by human "sanitation" efforts. A few weeks ago I forgot to drive out to the country to refill my container with this well water, and had to drink from a city tap for about a week. I started getting ulcers all over my mouth. Perhaps this was coincidental, but it is the only time in the past few years that I have consistently drank city water over a sustained period. Chlorine, fluoride, who knows what else.
I will say that NYC is supposed to have some of the best water in the nation because their reservoir is fresh snow melt. But any water kept in one place too long will be contaminated.
“The idea is that flowing water never goes stale, so just keep on flowing.” -Bruce Lee
I'm sure they'd love to pursue perfection if they were paid decent wage and not pressured to be as fast / cheap as possible.
It's easy to talk about perfection while sitting in a air conditioned office and slightly pressing on buttons while looking at a screen and getting paid 4-10 times the minimum wage these guys are getting while busting their asses outside no matter the weather.
> Personally, I drink all my water exclusively from a well. Untouched by human "sanitation" efforts.
Many things can be off with water coming from a well. Pollution, bacterias, &c. I hope you test / treat it often, otherwise it's not much safer than drinking tap water.
That means bending over to pick trash even if no one is watching. Doing a good job and not waste any employers time, regardless of "wage". Technically I make more than the people that hire me because I know how to spend it more efficiently than them.
We're talking about reputation here: Do we want to be remembered as someone who wants to be paid more? Or who was productive at all times without any complaints?
I agree that only wanting to do "good-enough" is an attitude problem. My own motivation comes from the assumption that someone is always watching. The idea is to never put a memory into someones mind of you wasting time and resources. Regardless of your own reputation, it is far more risky for someone to see this attitude and find it acceptable to replicate it. Then the attitude can spread like wildfire (until it hits a group of people with solid principles).
That and depending where you live, there's next to no money for road work.
At the local county govt I worked at, the first department that would get gutted was the highway department. It can easily cost millions to redo a few miles of road, and you need to fix a bridge that doesn't get used much (but it is becoming a hazard because it's been neglected for so long), magically most of the road budget is already gone for that year. Now add in the unknowns like salt prices, the equipment to do anything, maintenance, and everything else that comes with it.
Things here become "just good enough" because no one wants an increase in taxes to pay for it.
I want to believe that isn't the case for every local govt, but it is for the few smaller ones I've worked with around here.
I agree with you that it's all being neglected.
We had to steadily taper off the traffic into one lane before night time work began in the summer. I remember specifically one time I was slowing down traffic on the interstate by setting out the warning barrels - someone from out of state passing through was just so angry from having to slow down to 55mph for 10 minutes of their life. Flipped me off, along with the most rotten glare I've ever seen.
I guess nothing else matters except for everyone getting out of THEIR way so THEY can get to THEIR destination. I'm sorry that I'm taking the gas tax we've all been paying in order to renew a 10 mile stretch of the interstate so you can do just that - travel INTER state (bump free).
Peak capitalism
Clean water stored in clean, sealed containers will not spontaneously become contaminated.
I don't go different places often (to minimize fossil fuel output), but I imagine when I do reloacte I'll have to start with sterilizing water for 90m as you recommend, then slowly start adding local water to introduce my immune system to the region.
I drink out of a 7-gallon non-BPA container that I keep out of direct sunlight. Refill about every two weeks.
Temperature plays a role too.
A little bit of bleach would go a long way in preservation, but maybe that’s what you’re trying to avoid.
"... a lack of exposure of children (as well as adults) to dirt, commensal bacteria, and 'minor' pathogenic insults results in an immune system that does not function normally. This lack of antibodies to true pathogens in the immune system has resulted in the dramatic increase in allergies and asthma in developed countries over the past twenty years."
-Callaway, Harvey, Nisbet
Then there was the time the ant colony intersected the well column and we had red ants coming out of the faucet for a few days.
I'll have to keep an eye out for ants. I look at the water the entire time I fill, and everything always looks clear.
Agricultural or industrial runoff is not the only concern. The well equipment itself can become contaminated with beasties and the water can contain natural contaminants such as arsenic.
https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/rainwater-...