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hota_mazi

> it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence

Applets, JavaBeans, and CORBA. What a loss.

> Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again,

That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know?

> Java on the web is dead,

I don't think you have any idea about the hundreds of millions of lines of Java that power the web as you know it today.

The rest of your post is filled with equally uninformed claims but I'm going to stop here.

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> Java on the web is dead,

>> I don't think you have any idea about the hundreds of millions of lines of Java that power the web as you know it today.

Presumably they meant Java in the client, not the server.

"Presumably they meant Java in the client"

Android?

They are talking about his https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_applet

Which were absolutely everywhere at the turn of century.

So, yeah...if you are only thinking about web applets, which died over 20 years ago, and ignoring Android, which runs on most of the world's phones, I see why you might think "Java is dead."

Thanks to WebAssembly it is back.

http://teavm.org/

The web client specifically

>>> That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know?

Well, that's seeing the glass half full.

OpenJDK was complete garbage in the java 6-7 era, less than 5 years ago. Pretty much every major java software was requiring to install the Oracle JDK. Nobody would accept a bug or a support issue if it happened with the OpenJDK, which was the first question to be asked. And that wasn't fear mongering, java applications that worked perfectly fine just didn't work on the OpenJDK.

It is better now. I personally haven't seen an OpenJDK JVM crash in a while.

Yeah this was a problem for 6 & 7, but I've run plenty of code in production on OpenJDK 8 without issue. I think Java 8 was the first version where OpenJDK was the reference implementation so that likely helped a great deal.

That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know?

If Oracle's ridiculous interpretation of API copyrights holds up, they have a kill switch for OpenJDK.

Just like Google's ridiculous interpretation of the licenses of others being worthless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be...

I liked CORBA! I'll take it over whatever lackadaisical JSON silliness we have today.

Amen. Its a sad state of affairs when the middleware we had 25 years ago was faster and more robust that what we have now.

Java on the web is a reference to applets running in the browser.

Yes, Oracle, the company that sues people for breathing the same air owning Java is an issue.

Maybe I am uninformed, but you haven't made a good case that there's any truth to that.

Do you know anything about Java? I'm not trying to be insulting. Java has its problems, but your points are so far off the mark. Applets haven't been a thing for 20 years and I'm not sure they were a thing then either. Do you know people make web apps in Java and there's a ton of quality open source libraries out there?

I developed Java (Swing, Spring, JavaFX), managed tomcat deployments, good stuff.

I think my question is, do most Java developers really know what goes outside of their window? Every language has a good story for web apps these days. The web is ubiquitous. You can write in Phoenix, Cowboy, Rails, Sinatra, Express, "net/http", Django, Laravel, Flask, Rocket... Java is literally middle of the pack at best. So that's not a compelling reason to use Java. So then we have to look at the rest of Java. Is there anything else in there that would make it better for web dev than a simple Go/Ruby/Python/Javascript/Rust/Elixir app? No? Ok, then let's not use Java. Java excels at being mediocre at everything, but the best at nothing.

We rather enjoy the state of the art IDEs, JIT and GC compilers from Java and .NET, while slowly enjoying watching hipster startups rewrite their stacks when customers come flooding in.

Ask Twitter how their Rails apps is holding on.

> Java is literally middle of the pack at best

A warm JVM is faster than a greased millenium falcon.

Worked on a project to replace all Applets in a large enterprise product just a couple of years ago.

There is a lot of software running in this world. Some of it is very long lived.

Oracle owns the Java name and its implementation.

Other open implementations exist from Amazon, IBM, Microsoft, Zuul etc. And they are all using the JDK name which isn't owned by Oracle.

If Oracle were to die or become aggressive the Java ecosystem would just move on and not skip a beat.

Our company (on the scale of running it's own private cloud) has switched over to OpenJDK. Oracle is a non-issue for us

For people actually working with JVM and the languages on top of it, nobody really is worried about Oracle. The way the licensing is set up, they just don't have enough power to coerce people to use their version. It would kind of be like the SCO case if they came after it. I think they went after Google for Android simply to protect their IP, and that one they even "lost" (which detracts also from their possible future lawsuit on enforcing Java licensing)

As a believe in free and open source software, I think this is a very head in the sand approach. Any portion of Java, even if it's just a certification being open source is enough to run away from it when there are so many alternatives that are better languages and completely open source.

OpenJDK is GPLv2. I know of only a handful of other, popular languages with a license as copyleft as that.

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