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Comment by xondono | Hacker News Reader

Not trying to start the flame war, but this:

>We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy

Is still heavily disputed in nutrition circles.

It's not. The American Dietetics Association states as its official position that a vegan diet is healthful and adequate for all stages of life:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

There's currently quite a bit of debate over whether or not plant-based diets are better than other diets, but not over whether or not they are healthy.

The position statement was REMOVED on the request of Academy Positions Committee (APC) of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics for "inaccuracies and omissions". https://jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672(15)00261-0/abstrac...

The 2009 statement linked above was not removed; a 2015 update of the position statement was retracted and re-published in 2016 [1][2]. The position has been formally endorsed until December 31, 2021.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704

[2] https://jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672(16)31192-3/fulltex...

The 2015 version of the paper was removed for revision. It was revised and the current revision (Dec 2016) still has the same position on vegetarian diets.

https://www.eatrightpro.org/practice/position-and-practice-p...

>POSITION STATEMENT It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.

And it was never actually a big deal in the first place, because they have maintained more-or-less the same position for several decades, and the removal didn't actually change their position in a significant way.

https://retractionwatch.com/2015/11/16/inaccuracies-and-omis...

>Following the release of the “Vegetarian Diets” position paper, the Academy Positions Committee received correspondence from respected experts in the area of vegetarian nutrition, including Academy members, expressing concern about what they cited as inaccuracies in the paper. Upon receipt of the memoranda, the APC sent the paper out for a secondary external blind, unbiased review. Based on the result of these reviews, as well as the received correspondence from experts in the field, the APC voted to remove the paper from the Journal with the goal to revise and publish at a future date. Until then, individuals should refer to the “Vegetarian Diets” position paper published in the July 2009 Journal (Volume 109, Issue 7, pages 1266-1282).

This is the 2009 version:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19562864/

>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

Furthermore, most similar organizations take similar positions

https://www.livekindly.co/myth-buster-vegan-diets-are-unheal...

> for all stages of life

Even for babies?

This does not answer the question, but the fact that even ruminant offspring rely on milk to supplement their nutrition I think should at least create skepticism

Vegans aren't against breastfeeding.

And animals frequently eat other animals.

Ruminants are by definition able to produce all necessary nutrition in their gut. That was the point.

Though I normally encourage vegetarianism and admire vegans, I wouldn't stick to strictly a vegan diet during pregnancy.

From an economic/environmental perspective, severely limiting your intake of animal products is nearly as good as avoiding them completely, and nutritionally you're on much more solid ground.

The 2016 position says

>[Vegetarian and vegan] diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.

As long as your baby is an ideologue.

My son has been vegan for his entire life. He’s 4 now and very healthy.

I was vegan for 5 years and about 6 months ago started eating meat and dairy again for reasons unrelated to food. I was raised in a household that ate meat with almost every meal. I have personally experienced pros and cons to both lifestyles, but would argue that in practice, a vegan diet is healthier for most people due to the nature of food options available to them.

Including animal-free "milk" as an infant?

Yep, mainly coconut or almond milk. He was breastfed until he was about 22 months old.

Isn't consuming human breastmilk and being vegan/animal-free a contradiction?

Thanks for sharing & best wishes for your family's health. I hope you have allowed for proper vaccinations.

To be honest I haven't put much thought into that perspective, it's a good question. Breastfeeding was never a question for us, even on a vegan diet. I wonder what other vegans think of this question.

As I continued being vegan, I realized that the spectrum which is actually important is raw vs. processed foods, and less so meat vs plants. I think a lot of people who "do vegan right" end up just eat less processed crap in general and end up being healthy, not necessarily because of eating less/no meat. However, there are vegans that get on the "oreo diet" and just eat junk food 24/7 - those are not healthy vegans.

Thank you for the kind words, and likewise.

"I think a lot of people who "do vegan right" end up just eat less processed crap in general and end up being healthy, not necessarily because of eating less/no meat."

I agree 100%. Some of the biggest benefits of any diet are obtained by getting back to simple foods and away from highly processed foods/carbs mixed with seed oils and sugars. Ditch that stuff and you'll likely do well on just about any diet.

Just because ADA endorses it doesn't mean it isn't disputed. And by that I mean specifically vegan diets without supplementation.

Can you link to any material?

I really don’t think any nutritional scientist would claim it’s impossible to be healthy as a vegetarian. Whether it’s easier with meat or feasible for all people is something else

> I really don’t think any nutritional scientist would claim it’s impossible to be healthy as a vegetarian.

It is impossible for some people. Nutrition claims should always be taken with a grain of salt. For instance, the advice surrounding cholesterol over the past 30 years.

It's important here to realize that irrespective of your diet-- vegetarian, vegan, omnivore, carnivore and everything in between-- these are just labels and any of these can be bad for your health.

For example, the following highly processed and sugary foods are considered vegan/vegetarian-friendly: French fries from most fast-food chains, Oreo cookies, Fritos corn chips, Lays potato chips, unfrosted Pop-Tarts, Nature Valley Granola Bars, Graham Crackers.

I would not trust an endorsement of a diet from a health organization. Over the past 30-40 years most modern countries have been experiencing a surge in chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure and strokes. If you look at the places around the globe where Western diets have been introduced (e.g., Hawaii and Polynesia, Aboriginal tribes of Australia, Inuit in polar regions etc.), you see wrecked health markers for those populations after abandoning their local indiginous diets. Health organizations have done a disservice in the realm of nutrition and health.

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