Meanwhile in China we have 9-9-6. The US needs to wake up to whether it wants to stay in the game.
There's a NYT bestseller called "the subtle art of not giving a fuck". The Chinese, by and large, don't need this book because they already carefully allocate their fucks, and it's a natural thing for them to do (especially in the south, by my impression)
More anecdotally, I find Chinese engineers among the most joyful and laid back people to work together with. 10-10 Would Work With Again.
Also Chinese humor is splendid. Any joke that can get better by loudly appending "HAHAHAHAHA! ^_^" must be an excellent joke.
China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. They really gotta take a hint and learn from the Germans, who are well respected and have lots of positive stereotypes parroted around the internet "work-life balance, efficiency, timeliness, high standards of living, LE FREE HEALTHCARE!!!"
IMO Germany is worse than America (the country they love to poo-poo on) and even China in so many respects. Yet America and China are the places people call "third world" nowadays.
- Trains are constantly late.
- Majority of offices don't have airconditioning or any air ventilation system (in fact, my previous workplace of 300 employees was in a building with NO insulation or fire alarm/suppression system!)
- Card payments are not accepted in at least 50% of places, particularly restaurants. Cash only in 2019 (can anyone say TAX EVASION?).
- People boast about contactless payments which just became mainstream last year like it's the second coming of sliced bread.
- Boasting about the public transportation system which is only the best if you're a student with a massive surplus of time/shortage of cash, otherwise it takes you anywhere from 10 mins to 1 hour (depending on time of day and route) more to get between two places compared to a car. Heaven forbid you have a family, then public transportation even costs more than having a car.
- Employers are extremely exploitative, especially in tech and especially startups - I'd say some places in America/Asia have better work-life and are less toxic than German companies. The only difference between America/China and Germany is the latter has employment laws that are actually enforced, but only if you go to court (but contrary to popular belief, don't make you "unfireable", just allow the employee to get a few thousand EUR as compensation for when the employer does try their hand at something exploitative - and they will, hoping you're not aware of your rights)
- Virtue signalling on all sorts of things. Not gonna get into politics/immigration, there's plenty on that elsewhere. But German companies love to boast about EQUALITY FOR ALL, DISCRIMINATION IS DISGUSTING. All while lowballing immigrants in terms of salary and imposing an industrial-grade glass ceiling for any non-German who tries to work here. E.g. they will boast how their company of 300 has over 80 nationalities and work exclusively in English (because 90% of clients are American/British) but oddly enough, everyone in mid-upper/upper management is white and German. Maybe throw in the occasional white non-German European or token Indian guy for DIVERSITY!!!111!!!!1
- Diesel, until recently, was the bragging point for efficiency. I remember not 5 years ago, there would be so many Europeans in comments sections of (any discussion remotely car/transportation related) poo-pooing on the "dumb Americans" for still using gasoline and polluting the environment by not getting "the bigger MPGs" using diesel. LOL.
- Free healthcare isn't actually free if you're not like the classic local European who still is a student with 0 work experience at age 30 shitposting on the internet. Look at the "KV" (health insurance) field of your payslip: I pay hundreds of EUR every MONTH as a healthy young person for "free healthcare". Out of sight, out of mind right?
TLDR China is about as attractive as any other country on the planet, they just have subpar image management and PR at the moment
Germany is different.
I think there are just different ups and downs.
FYI the worst part about German startups has to be the lack of big hits, with big exists, thereby making all the pain not really worth it. Startups are only worth it if there's a rational means to payout which I don't think exists frankly anywhere outside if the US.
Precisely my point but some countries and their people (or their PR team, depending how much tinfoil you're wearing) try to have you believe that it's nothing but upsides. E.g. The ample "Germany good and better, America bad and dumb" themed comments across the internet we've seen in the past decade.
Stupidly enough, I believed those comments back in the day, moved to Germany, only to find out I'd been fed a crap ton of lies.
Cool, why haven't you moved there?
That said, I made my bed and I'll lie in it for a while. Already looking at options for where to move, but I wasn't about to move my life here and ragequit after 1-2 years like most people do (the type of person that moves here seems to not care very much about the financial and stress cost of moving internationally, how ~1 year of work on their resume + 6 months jobless looks bad on their resume, etc)
Maybe not China, salaries and high-tech life there sound appealing but the firewalled internets is a big turn-off, but definitely not remaining in Germany now that I've done enough time.
Especially the "public transport is slow/expensive" part. It seems it's one of the best (in the western hemisphere at least) and that even compared with NYC/Montreal/Toronto.
(But of course YMMV)
Is Germany that much better when you can get fined if you flip someone off (say an idiotic driver on the road) and there are contracts (where you're usually locked in for 2 years with autorenewal and requiring 3 or 6 months' notice to quit) for literally everything?
Thousand time yes! In case one is not fluent in German they behave like shark smelling the blood. Overtime, underdog tasks, imposing ridiculous decisions, defaming reprimands (Abmahnung). The labour code is on one's side, but good luck finding a lawyer who'll engage in an individual case.
> All while lowballing immigrants in terms of salary and imposing an industrial-grade glass ceiling for any non-German who tries to work here. E.g. they will boast how their company of 300 has over 80 nationalities and work exclusively in English (because 90% of clients are American/British) but oddly enough, everyone in mid-upper/upper management is white and German.
Forget about English speaking environment in Germany - it's a trap, especially when managers and directors are German. Anytime the shit hits the fan, the communication fallbacks into local language because that's the language of the labour code. They will try to screw one over while wrongfully accusing of various things and breaching rules which previously "didn't matter".
FREE healthcare means that everyone is covered, even if unemployed or working for low wages. The more you earn, the more you pay (capped at ~400€). Your family is insured for no extra payment. You obviously don‘t fit the system because you believe you should pay less (single, young, healthy) but that‘s exactly not what it is. Poor, old, unhealthy people, those who suffer in life are protected. Cancer won‘t bankrupt your family, you won‘t end on the street. That‘s free healthcare - dignity! Not paying little no nothing if you‘re young and healthy.
> Cancer won‘t bankrupt your family, you won‘t end on the street.
> That‘s free healthcare - dignity!
I guess the middle age male homeless sitting and sleeping all over the cities and transport venues damage your vision slightly. Don't even try the narrative "it's eastern Europeans, it's their own fault".
Fact is, most people who are legally in Germany for >3 months are legible for Hartz 4: a free apartment, free heating and a few hundred Euro. And free healthcare.
Free apartment for a foreigner living in the country only over 3 months?! Dude, people on employment contract with over average income, staying in the country for years are having difficulties to find anything for rent in any major city, buying is out of question. Did you swallow an info brochure of German ministry for social affairs?
Well, there’s your problem.
If you are unemployed, there is hardly any reason to stay in a big city.
Have a look at the large Canadian cities: Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Or France, whose residents use the three letter acronym SDF to refer to the homeless.
Anecdotally, I've heard that a significant proportion of them have mental health issues for which they refuse treatment, free or not. It's also a problem of housing accessibility (interesting article: https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/mar/22/finl...) and support for transitioning to gainful employment.
Sounds like universal healthcare, not free healthcare.
The complain is that how can something be "free" when someone else has to pay for it. The definition of free literally means that someone else has to pay for it (externalities and labor to extract resources from the land count as payment). Real "free" anything where nobody pays anything doesn't exist. It's a strawman.
Your analysis is correct, I enjoy working in China the most. Work hours are not bad but after work hours are lot more interesting.
There is lots of hustle and bustle, and the co-workers actually do invite you to their family events.
I am lot more happy in China and play to have a family here.
And paying into a national health system might not be free its a lot cheaper than the USA's model.
I don't think you can use the word "we" to make your claim.
Regardless if you meant to speak for the Americans or people from some other country, you don't represent their opinion.
In the "view of what's important in life" I don't think there is a lot of difference between Chinese and Western culture.
Regarding 9-9-6, yeah, I also hope we don't copy that from them.
Maybe I met some lucky few, but if my impression of Chinese tech working culture is accurate, it's less insane than popularly reported.
I'd rather work in a place with "work-life balance" (whatever the hell that is these days, 8-6?) but such places are disappearing all over the planet. Even in Europe, work-life balance can be goddamn horrible in tech, especially if you work in a startup. Unpaid overtime is common, in a recent interview at a startup of 70 employees, I was told "our official working hours are 9am-6pm but... well, we're a startup, so you know... hint hint nudge nudge".
If what places like Blind are saying is true (that pay in the east is rising to SV-like levels), China and Asian countries with "long working hours" may be viable places to work in the future, since long hours are already a norm in America and becoming the new European standard too.
But I'm making a solid $20k less than I could make elsewhere at my current role. To me though, it's worth it for a working environment where I wake up with a smile at the thought of driving in, rather than waking up with a sick pit of dread in my gut every day.
Some people would work more or much more (they ended up being "nudged" into management, the poor souls, they regretted it dearly), but as a software engineer the market is so much in your favour that you can always go somewhere else.
So instead of spending time with your loved ones and living life, you sleep under a desk just to clock in your 12 hours at the office. Sorry, it doesn't seem any less insane.
Sounds to me that you simply disagree whether having a great lunch and a relaxed working atmosphere is a valuable part of "living life". I suspect that my priorities are more like yours than the average Chinese, but I disagree that you can call them insane for a chilled out work ethic and a foodie culture. It's different, and indeed family gets almost no time and IMO that sucks balls, but it's not the nasty Nazi work regime people make it out to be.
A faith in corporate culture may, though. Conformity, in any country, is incompatible with effective R&D.
If you can't do the work why take up a spot in one of the best schools in the land? Isn't that a valid question? Especially in the hypercompetitive world we live in?
Trying to do more than 30 hours of intense creative work per week yields diminishing returns, while leading to worse and worse negative health effects as you increase hours. People working 60+ hours per week are wrecking themselves for bad results.
I train hundreds of professional athletes. The majority of them do not have rich lives outside of their training. Most of them have very unbalanced lives that center around their sport, training, and everything to do with it. Most relationships fail inside pro sports for several obvious reasons.
Most have some form of mental health issues.
We watch them on TV and we expect greatness, but as long as it is not us paying the cost to get there, we don't mind.
Do you think the exclusive focus helps their performance at their sport?
Do you think competition selects for people with mental health problems, or causes mental health problems?
Is there a noticeable difference between athletes who burn out in a few years vs. the ones who have long careers?
Some 30 hours a week in the off-season. Additionally, many have off-season jobs to make ends meet. Pro sports isn't all what it's cracked up to be. Not all of them play on TV.
> Do you think the exclusive focus helps their performance at their sport?
Likely.
> Do you think competition selects for people with mental health problems, or causes mental health problems?
Yes.
> Is there a noticeable difference between athletes who burn out in a few years vs. the ones who have long careers?
Genetic ability first, preparation second. If you are an extremist, you might get preparation to exceed your genetic lottery ticket. But I've only seen that happen once.
For example, I am just watching highlights of the Indian Wells Tennis Tourney thats going on, and a 38 year old Roger Federer has managed to get to the finals. And in every interview with the rest of the competition, they all say he is just working harder than the rest of the field.
And like with everyone else, they are not at their best when overworked and depressed, but it does not matter for institution because there areally many students eager to apply so it does not matter how many if them pay the cost.
Innate talent may be a prerequisite for creative work, but it's seldom sufficient without putting the time and effort in.
You'd be surprised at how much creative progress is due to steady effort rather than some brilliant epiphany. Just because its intellectual work doesn't mean it can’t be solved by grinding it out.
[1]http://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf
The Productivity of Working Hours, John Pencavel
[2]https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/abb5/02a8b01b50790a44cf5438...
Creative productivity: A predictive and explanatory model of career trajectories and landmarks.
Dean Keith Simonton
For a popular audience
``Knowledge and productivity are like compound interest.'' Given two people of approximately the same ability and one person who works ten percent more than the other, the latter will more than twice outproduce the former. The more you know, the more you learn; the more you learn, the more you can do; the more you can do, the more the opportunity - it is very much like compound interest. I don't want to give you a rate, but it is a very high rate. Given two people with exactly the same ability, the one person who manages day in and day out to get in one more hour of thinking will be tremendously more productive over a lifetime. I took Bode's remark to heart; I spent a good deal more of my time for some years trying to work a bit harder and I found, in fact, I could get more work done. I don't like to say it in front of my wife, but I did sort of neglect her sometimes; I needed to study. You have to neglect things if you intend to get what you want done. There's no question about this.
And frankly, countries like Switzerland and Norway can't even really grow their GDP. They're essentially maxed out since most people have a standard of life beyond even upper class people in most countries. China is at a point where $2000 of growth is more significant than $12000 would be for Switzerland or Norway.
Oh no, the boss is going to take my hello world app in node js.
Work smarter, not harder.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-c...
Japan and the United States are both quite a bit higher. Is it likely that China is fudging the numbers and it's higher than what they report? Yes. But neither Japan nor the US come off as looking good here.