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Comment by theprotocol | Hacker News Reader

Amid the neverending diet controversy it seems safest to do low carb (non-keto), medium high-quality fat of which a majority is monounsaturated, medium protein - and be aware not to reduce saturated fat too much as it's not that scary after all, but also don't go overboard like some of the somewhat extreme saturated fat advocates that have appeared in the last few years.

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Where's the controversy? Virtually every nation's broad dietary recommendations are the same, and are largely unchanged over the last 100 years. There are individual studies about specific foods (like eggs, butters, trans fats, etc) that have some turbulence. But "Eat whole grains, legumes, vegetables, greens, and fruits. Limit meats, saturated fats, sugars, and processed foods." is pretty much only disputed by bro-science and a handful of carefully cherry-picked studies.

Most national dietary guidelines seem to be fairly high in carbs imho.

There is a huge debate currently, between government endorsed diets, plant-based, and keto, and each group is able to cite numerous studies that contradict the others'.

> Most national dietary guidelines seem to be fairly high in carbs imho

Yes. I agree. I can't recall seeing any modern country's dietary guides suggest a low-carb / keto diet.

I also wanted to say in my last comment that most government endorsed diets only recommend limiting added sugar.

Also, much of that bro-science is now being promoted by many MDs and there's a good chance you'll see some of it become officially adopted in the coming years (and I say this as someone who sees this as a pendulum swing instead of adopting what we learned moderation).

Yes. Dr. Atkins was singing this tune in 1989. Then after having several heart attacks, he died 14 years later of another heart attack.

So, even if this was true, the plural of anecdote is not data. His heart disease could have been the result of genetic factors or a number of other factors not related to his diet. There is also no guaranty he was taking his own advice. Dr. Atkins had one heart attack and it was caused by an infection. The thing that killed him was traumatic brain injury as the result of a fall.

> A medical report issued by the New York medical examiner's office a year after his death showed that Atkins had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension.[10][12] His widow refused to allow an autopsy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Atkins_(physician)

My point was mainly that there have been out-of-the-mainstream doctors advocating for this diet for 3 decades. They continue to be out-of-the-mainstream.

Speaking of bro-science, added sugar is chemically equal to naturally occurring sugars and you can't discriminate against one with out the other (either it's healthy or it is not). Hint: It's not. That fruit may have vitamins, but they are basically embedded in a candy bar nutrition wise. Actually, it's worse than a candy bar because it lacks protein and fat which keep you satiated.

Humans evolved to crave sugar for a reason. It's not bad for you. But, as with anything, too much is absolutely bad for you. Fruit has this really great built-in mechanism for stopping you from eating too much: fiber. Added sugar (or removed fiber, in e.g., juice) makes it easy to exceed the healthy amount.

Low refined carb definitely, but most of the diet patterns with a long track record of health (e.g. think blue zones) contain plenty of complex carbs. Sweet potatoes, whole grains, and vegetables all feature prominently.

IMO what's "safest" right now is to follow empirical observation and cleave to a pattern that is successful, rather than trying to break down the important parts and construct your own diet from those pieces.

Someday I'd like to see a cost-benefit analysis of eating salads in place of something like bacon and eggs. It seems to me that the uptick in cardiovascular health would be swallowed up by the increased risk of food poisoning.

And for me, salads are horrid and ALWAYS make me sick. I only eat vegetables very well cooked, or not at all.

Why low carb?

Carbs = Sugar. Period, end of story. The key to good body composition is a high protein, low carb (low sugar) diet. Avoid foods that spike insulin.

Anything else is hogwash, because calories are not calories.

How do you get fibre then?

a large number of vegetables are low carb.

By weight maybe, but by relative composition, 80% of the calories in broccoli come from carbs.

What about fruit?

Largely fruit has too much sugar. Berries are okay (blue and black and red)

What! I surrender. Are people really not eating fruit because of the carbs? Oh my. It's fruit! One of the healthiest snacks you can have!

And before I get someone saying "just run at an 'energy deficit' - consume less calories than you burn" - I say, if you want to look and FEEL good, the person who eats 1,500 calories a day of carbohydrates vs 1,500 calories a day of protein, vegetables (carbohydrates largely bound by fiber), etc - will look and feel vastly different. This is why it's not just as simple as calories in - calories out.

[needs citation]

Most people seriously interested in this topic should already be familiar with the "insulin index" paper (was reposted to HN within the last couple weeks).

EDIT: Or maybe just 3 days ago? Seems like longer. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19369743

A high protein diet can also spike insulin, it is more important to eat healthy fats.

Some amino acids are potent insulin secretogogues; proteins induce a fairly robust insulin response.

"because calories are not calories"

What are/were they then?

Because metabolic insulinemia is out of control these days and I find the keto people's studies quite convincing (look into Ivor Cummins' presentations on YouTube), in addition to hearing similar points of view even in some anti-keto diets. It seems pretty likely to me that sugar is very easy for us to over-consume in modern lifestyles.

Less convincing to me is the full-on keto diet itself. It's great that it exists as it started an excellent conversation on diet, but I rule it out because most cultures' dietary staples have been starchy carbs.

The problem imho is:

- It's too easy to overconsume carbs in modern lifestyles, and some of the carbs we consume spike our insulin too much (certain GMO crops in particular).

- It's too easy to consume non-whole-food carbs. Whole foods come with things that reduce the metabolic burden of eating them (fiber, antinutrients like phytates, antioxidants).

- The people who subsisted on carb-based staple foods led significantly more active lifestyles in the past than most people today, and did not have the abundance of food that we do now.

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