Peter Thiel Makes Down Payment on Libertarian Ocean Colonies | Hacker News Reader

Peter Thiel Makes Down Payment on Libertarian Ocean Colonies

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44 pointsnaish29 comments

For the theory, history, and practical details of the project, don't miss Patri Friedman's exhaustive book on the subject:

http://seasteading.org/seastead.org/book_beta/full_book_beta...

I suggest calling this brave new world Rapture ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock#Plot_summary ).

The burbclave goes prescient?

On a more serious note, it would seem that governments tailor made for specific purposes might have a large competitive advantage over more established legal structures.

Suppose, for example, startups were allowed to hold equity auctions for a tiny fraction of their company on a weekly basis, with no SEC filings and only whatever accounting the market demands. I suppose that example is more generally libertarian, but perhaps particular law on what contracts are enforceable (the NDA for one) might be helpful.

Do you know the current Kongbuck exchange rate, by chance?

Jokes aside, leaving the accounting to the market seems ripe for fraud. Finance is staid, but it's got a lot of years of experience behind it.

>Jokes aside, leaving the accounting to the market seems ripe for fraud. Finance is staid, but it's got a lot of years of experience behind it.

Where do you think accounting rules come from? Accounting practice comes from hundreds of years of custom and precedent, also known as "the market". It is only recently that accounting standards have been codified into law.

Things Peter Thiel has funded:

The Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence (Making sure our eventual AI overlords are benevolent)

Aubrey De Grey's Methuselah Mouse Prize (Research toward ending aging)

The Seasteading Institute (Build your own nation)

I'm really excited about the kind of people the tech boom has made rich.

It would be cool if they could go out to the "floating garbage continents" and make use of the plastic to build out their colonies.

I always get a kick out of Patri's work, but it raises the question, why are countries so reluctant to sell or trade territory? Even if it's universally considered short-sighted, well, governments do a lot of short-sighted things. What incentives are missing?

I wonder if one could buy out the citizens of an existing country instead.

I've wondered that too. Why doesn't Mexico set up a bunch of low-tax, corporate run, special economic zones to attract high tech businesses from the US? With low taxes, low cost of living, and a proper regulatory environment, many businesses would set up shop. Mexico could make an enormous amount of money.

Perhaps the comparison is off-base but I have not read any mention of the Principality of Sealand in relation to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

Check out the "Review of Similar Projects" section in the Seasteading book:

http://seasteading.org/seastead.org/book_alpha/review.html#S...

Peter Thiel is awesome

What do they plan to eat and drink?

And what about pirates? =)

That is probably the biggest problem. One thing we take for granted in our nation states is a military defense.

From the article:

"Of course, one major role of government is to provide security, which would seem to be an issue on the open sea. But Friedman's not worried about defense beyond simple firearms because he thinks pirates will lack the financial incentive to attack the seasteads.

"More sophisticated pirates will take entire container ships that have tens of millions of dollars of cargo and 10 crew [members]," he said. "On a seastead, there's a much different crew-to-movable assets ratio."

In fact, his only worry is that a government will try to come calling and force their jurisdiction upon them. Toward that end, they are planning to fly a "flag of convenience" from a country that sells them, like Panama, to provide them with protection from national navies. "

Also, you should check out the website (http://www.seasteading.org) and read the FAQ. The founders have thought of the obvious questions.

Tactical nukes hidden in the capitals of potentially aggressive countries should be a good enough deterrence from state actors. Robot Sharks with lasers should be enough to stop the pirates.

I'm sure the pirates will listen to "reason". Ultima Ratio Regum and all that.

I, for one, plan to fire upon them with my trusty sonic cannon.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,385048,00...

Do not worry, the free market will take care of it.

I love that your sentiment is meant both as an attack by skeptics and an obvious answer by believers.

They're in the ocean. Typically, that would involve eating fish and drinking water :)

Then again, this is the 21st century. I cannot imagine the food they eat would differ too much from the food you're currently eating in Seattle/Chicago/SV/London/etc.

fish occurred to me, too, but is it sufficient?

In this day and age, whether or not something is available is no longer really a question. The only thing that is relevant becomes how much it costs to get it. In this case, the cost of shipping perishable goods to these "islands" on a daily/weekly basis.

Even if fish were sufficient, I don't think any of the inhabitants would appreciate eating fish and fish alone day in, day out. Non-perishable goods like crackers, chips, Pepsi, coffee, sugar, flour, etc. can be shipped in large quantities and cheaply (via barges). But stuff like eggs, milk, fresh meat, and other goods that can be held in storage for long periods of time without adversely affecting the quality and nutrition of their constituents need some other solution.

At any rate, they'll have an easier time at getting something to eat than the inhabitants of the International Space Station for sure :)

Just because it's in international waters doesn't mean it has to be in the middle of the ocean. If they're willing to accept being outside the territorial waters of any country but still in the Exclusive Economic Zone of one, then they can sit 24 miles off the coast from a port, and do weekly grocery runs with an ordinary vessel.

If they can't stomach being in somebody's exclusive economic zone (not that it makes much practical difference) then they'd have to be 200 miles offshore, making grocery runs a bit more of a pain but still possible. A reasonably fast ship will get you there and back in a day.

They should pay the government of Nauru to rent their sovereignty. They can keep the "island" above sea level by building a mooring tower and tie seasteads to it. Their territory can be the 200 mile economic zone of Nauru.

Also, there's lots of healthy stuff that can be kept in dry form. (Fruits, Legumes, and grains.) They will also have the ability to keep things frozen. Chest freezers can be highly efficient. Especially if they are not opened very often.

"Hey everyone, guess what? Fish for dinner again!", followed by a beating of the cook and a mutiny.

Joking aside, they could probably trade something to have someone float a few cows their way.

This is what they plan to eat and drink:

http://seasteading.org/seastead.org/commented/paper/infra.ht...

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