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Comment by nradov | Hacker News Reader

Expatriates can take advantage of the foreign earned income exclusion up to about $105K. For US citizens with higher foreign incomes it's totally fair to require them to pay some income taxes. They still benefit from being citizens even when they're not physically present in the country. And if they don't like it they can just pay a small fee to renounce their citizenship.

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I disagree with having to effectively pay twice. I've lived overseas for a total of 8 years and the tax rules suck. I'm back in the US now, but when I did work overseas, taxes were fairly complex. My UK family and friends didn't pay taxes to the crown when they worked here. My South African friends don't pay to SA and they work here. It's really not fair if you think about it. People from other countries still enjoy the benefits of their respective citizenships while in other places, yet don't suffer the indignity of the double dip.

My wife if a US citizen and we are living abroad right now. Not sure what benefits you are talking about that warrants paying a tax while abroad.

Being able to vote. Consular services. The American military keeping the peace worldwide. You can quibble over the value of these services, but there are logical reasons why countries may want to tax overseas citizens who retain citizenship.

These may be true, but yet other countries don't do this.

I once worked with an American guy who served 5 years in the French Foreign Legion. This poor guy played hell when he returned to the US after an almost 5.5 year absence. The Legion gave him a new name during his service and French citizenship upon completion of his tour, and when he returned to the US, he said they treated him like a pariah. The IRS audited him, yet did not assess him any levies. It was a nightmare for him that took over 6 months to sort out--with help from a tax attorney.

Consular services in many countries are a joke, even for citizens, with bored bureaucrats taking out their frustrations on people who frequently have no other recourse. The state department is nothing like what is depicted in movies and on TV.

As one example, in most cases, overseas citizens are still eligible to receive social security benefits.

which are... none? I don't mean to be cynical sorry, but social benefits are US citizen subject that warrant such high taxes while living abroad?

We live in NL and definitely don't get/need any benefits from the US.

> And if they don't like it they can just pay a small fee to renounce their citizenship.

"Because I don't want to pay US taxes" is one of the few reasons your application to renounce your citizenship can be denied.

You would need to lie on a federal form, which for some people is not a "small fee".

Mostly the problem is a) you still need to file taxes, which is complicated even further by being overseas, and b) the US imposes substantial reporting requirements on any foreign bank which serviees its citizens, which leads to a lot of banks simply refusing service to them. When people are willing to spend $2000 (it may be small to those making over $105k, but most people renouncing their US citizenship after moving overseas are not making that much) and give up their citizenship over something which is basically just paperwork, it's got to be pretty bad.

Unlike every other country on planet earth, which doesn’t tax non-residents yet still manages to support their citizens?

It’s a money-grab, pure and simple.

But this can catch accidental dual citizens eg Boris Jonson got a separate tax demand from the IRS when he was selling his mums house and presumably after HMRC had had its death duties.

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