Elon Musk set to unveil Model Y | Hacker News Reader

Elon Musk set to unveil Model Y

wsj.com

32 pointspicodguyo33 comments

Points to players who notice we now have models S3XY

People have been selling T-Shirts around this for years. However, most of them depict the Y with falcon wing doors, which is not the case according to reports I read earlier this week.

Example shirt: https://teslaminiature.com/product/s3xy-tesla-unisex-t-shirt...

And he would have named the Model 3 "Model E" if he hadn't been sued by Ford.[1]

1. http://fortune.com/2014/05/07/tesla-drops-model-e-trademark-...

It was mentioned in his book (which not that I think of is obsolete, history is not over yet).

Paywall :-(

https://outline.com/xdyXDF

There is a “web” link next to the story title. Click that, then the headline.

I know this used to work, but it doesn't seem to work anymore for me. Even in incognito.

Who'd have thought Tesla would have to meet or beat another player on launch day? When announcing a new SUV, Tesla now has to compare with Rivian for availability, range, price, performance, etc. Until they actually ship, the Model Y is as much vaporware as Rivian. So Tesla has to compete with pie-in-the-sky promises.

Here's hoping that they both deliver.

>Until they actually ship, the Model Y is as much vaporware as Rivian.

This is absurd IMO. Tesla has now produced several hundred thousand cars. To suggest they have as much credibility as a company who hasn't even created ONE car (please find me a video of someone actually driving it) is crazy. We can all at least assume if Tesla is still viable when Y production is slated, that it will actually be a car.

I agree that Tesla has more credibility. That was not my argument. I believe that Tesla will deliver the Model Y.

But I have enough hope in the Rivian that it will affect my opinion of the Model Y. Until the Rivian actually fails, and if the promised release dates are comparable to the Model Y, then the Model Y has to compete with it for mindshare. Can Model Y match the promised range of the Rivian? Will the prices be comparable? Passenger count, off-road capabilities, comfort, ...

As long as Rivian can dangle a timeframe close to the Model Y, plenty of people will hold off on the Y purchase if the Rivian promises more. As the release date gets closer, Rivian might slip, but right now they compete.

I'm just noting that I wouldn't have expected Tesla to have such a competitor yet. For now, it's a competition of promises. But whether it's Rivian, or Ford, or whoever, the competition of reality is almost close enough to taste.

Almost...

Considering the vaporware nature of the Rivian at this point, it makes you wonder if it's existence is merely to pressure Tesla and steal mind/market share from them without ever producing anything.

I don't think Amazon would invest almost $1b into a company just to pressure Tesla. I know there are a lot of EV vaporware companies out there but I don't think Rivian is one of them.

I don't either, I was just throwing that out as a mental exercise. Who would benefit from devaluing Tesla and why?

I wonder what makes you think that about Rivian?

You're forgetting:

1) Hyundai Kona https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx

2) Kia Niro https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/vehicles/upcoming-vehicles...

Both of which are compact EV SUVs, with range greater or comparable to Model 3, from mainstream car manufacturers and are already available or about to be, at ~$37-38K.

Also, both have full $7500 Federal credit available, unlike Tesla which is half of that now and will further reduce in July I think.

In addition, personal and biased opinion, front and headlights of Rivian looks hideous.

[Really curious why would someone down vote this comment? Did I offend folks by comparing a Tesla with a Hyundai and Kia]

Indeed, the EV world is getting more and more interesting.

I take my hat off to Tesla for being a big part in making this happen.

Neither vehicle is really an SUV, looks aside. Their ground clearance is limited (6.2" for the Kona Electric, ~5.9" for the Kia Niro), and neither offers AWD or any towing rating.

For a majority of SUV owners in the US, especially for an electric, I don't think they'll care. They want a high seat position, roomy interior, and maybe to project an image that they could drive off-road even though they won't.

Personally I doubt that AWD and tow capacity will matter to most folks. Also, I guess we'll have to wait and see how Model Y does in those areas.

In warm climates, yes. AWD is important anywhere where it snows.

Useful, yes, but not really important. I drive a FWD (fake)SUV crossover 4 months of the year in snow in the more rural suburbs of Oslo and find myself thinking I want AWD only once or twice a winter. As somebody else said, the roughest drive we do is gravel roads.

The bigger difference might be FWD vs RWD. I do seem to see RWD cars getting stuck more (as evidenced by which wheels are spinning uselessly). For the model Y Tesla might well mimic the model 3 options of RWD or AWD, in which case AWD would definitely be the wiser choice.

I think stats for most SUVs show that 90% of them don't ever leave paved roads. People buy them because they "feel safe" and they're practical as they're big and roomy.

The Model X, Y and both of these are CUVs, not SUVs. The Rivian concept vehicle may very well be a full SUV, if they use a proper body-on-frame design as advertised.

Those are both good city cars by experienced manufacturers with perfectly usable interiors and good build quality. What they are lacking is the viability as a general-purpose car suitable for long trips and the autopilot features Tesla offers.

What makes the not viable for longer trips?

The combination of small battery, slow charging (100 KW max.), high air resistance (= lower range at highway speeds) and lack of fast charging infrastructure.

Pretty funny that you compare a Model Y to Rivian. Model Y will 100% be delivered, because 70%> of the car use the same components as the Model 3. The tooling is already under way at Gigafactory 1 and manufacturing lines being installed for motors and stamping. Tesla is still way smaller than the traditional automotive giants, but make no mistake they have a lot of experience when it comes to EVs. Even traditional automative giants admit that. Rivan has a lot more to prove.

I think a lot of people forget that Rivian has the backing of Amazon and GM though. I am not saying that Rivian is a proven car company but I would give them a much higher chance at success than I would have given Tesla 9 years ago. I fully believe that Rivian will deliver and that Tesla will also deliver so I think the comparison between the two is valid.

Plenty of ventures back by big names end up dead. Even when Amazon or GM themselves execute a new product, it's no where near a guaranteed success...

Tesla has products and paying customers. Big difference.

You are right but Amazon has invested almost $1b into Rivian and Amazon has almost as much cash ($42b) as Tesla's market cap ($50b). With GM jumping in too these two companies combined could flex and crush Tesla. Not saying this will happen (I don't think it will) but it could.

Amazon no doubt wants in on the self driving electric vehicle market to compete with Tesla, Apple and Google and heavily investing in the best EV startup other than Tesla is the easiest way into this field. But because of this I would put Rivian as only slightly behind Tesla.

Now you are right, forcing your way into a field by throwing money at the problem doesn't always ensure success, just as Windows Phone. But as with Windows Phone it does usually ensure a decent product gets to market. And that is all I am saying will happen. The likelihood of a Rivian product getting to market is just as likely as a Model Y getting to market. Both extremely high.

The Rivian is rather a Pickup-Truck. The Model Y would be a CUV, that is, a Model 3 with a taller bodywork for a more space in the back row and trunk and allowing for a proper trunk hatch. It is supposed to otherwise share the same platform with the Model 3.

By that logic the 2020 Toyota Camry is also “vaporware.”

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