Comment by throwawaynonce | Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwawaynonce | Hacker News Reader

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> You should also assume all of your traffic while at the office

I fell out with my manager at FANG and she got back at me with the lowest rating possible for the year-end review. I chose to get my concerns across to HR about how this was unfair and challenged them to validate her critical feedback with peer engs. Didn't happen.

Instead what followed was, I was investigated for violation of company rules such as putting company laptop to personal use, violating social media policy, holding on to company documents for more time than company's policy permits... among a lot of such trivial other things (I was astonished at the intelligence they had built up, I guess, by using responses to internal surveys, predicting probability to have done something via browsing patterns, keeping tabs on laptop disk usage etc).

Once they had built "a case" they would go on to engage legal and terminate my employment with what I presume now qualifies as "just cause" and avoid having to pay any severance.

Has worked wonders for them, this tactic. I have since heared that a few other employees have been handled in a similar manner and that I was not the only one.

Remember the following:

HR is not your friend. HRs duty is to the company. If what you need and what the company needs are on the same page, sure, HR is on your side, but if not, they will do whatever it is that benefits and protects the company.

This advice is about as useful as the also ever-present HN saying, “if you’re not paying for it, you’re the product”

In other words, entirely useless and just a derailment of the thread.

I disagree. This is a cautionary statement for other people in the same situation as the parent post - if your boss has it out for you, HR is unlikely to have your back. Polish your resume, get an offer somewhere else, be explicit in your exit interview and don't sign any NDAs.

I like the saying: "If you look around and don't see a price tag, it may be on the back of your head. Don't forget to bring a few mirrors or a trusted friend with you."

This seems to be a US thing. Worked in HR departments across several European countries. Obviously, HR’s duty is first and foremost to the company. It’s the same for everyone else in the company (to whom else should it be?! [1]). HR is chasing managers for policy adherence as much as it is chasing employees. At least in the companies I’ve seen, managers are typically even more so in the crosshairs of HR because they are supposed to enforce company policies at the frontline. Obviously, this breaks down if you talk about Board-level executives where the Supervisory Board will be involved more strongly.

If there are problems between employees and managers, HR should try to mitigate along company policy, where typically the first step would be to get the facts on the table.

Potentially this is lived more strongly in Europe, where employees have pretty powerful means after a dismissal to receive severance in case of any wrongdoing of the company

[1] and yes, it should be first to yourself but that’s the same for HR

I don't know, I worked for a large UK multinational and if you saw HR about then you generally knew someone was in trouble - their role appeared to be purely damage limitation.

On the plus side they took no interest in hiring.

Pretty normal whenever HR has decided you need firing. Its similar to the police (in america anyway), make enough rules and you can fire all but the most model employee on a long enough timeline without any effort.

Sounds like the legal space in the Soviet Union.

You can get rid of anyone if you make enough illegal.

That said, I don't think it's quite so bad in the US.

Maybe not as bad as the USSR, but here are some examples that really shouldn't be felonies...

https://mic.com/articles/86797/8-ways-we-regularly-commit-fe...

And a Twitter account that highlights mostly ridiculous laws... https://twitter.com/crimeaday?lang=en

First mistake is HR.

HR is not your friend, never engage unless you have air cover from an exec with juice.

I’m sorry to hear that. On that note, it seems almost impossible to not use company equipement to look at things which may not be strictly work related such as news, new tech, websites, the occasional Youtube comedy clip.

Seems inhuman to have such strict rules which only serve as a way for the company to kick people out when they moment is opportune.

> it seems almost impossible to not use company equipement

Why? Just don't do it. If its not work related, stop. If you need to kill some time to stay sane, get up and take a walk to do whatever on your device. I've worked at places where the computer that I used was connected to the production network. It was not connected to the internet at all which meant no email. To get to email, we had to log into a remote system to view email. Attachments could be saved to a folder that put it up for review of relevance and virus/malware/etc. If it wasn't approved, it was silently deleted with no notification.

At another location, we blocked FB at the firewall for the day, and the employees about lost their mind. It was very telling about how much time was wasted throughout the day. It was also surprising the number of people that complained like it was their right to use the company's resources to update their friends.

> It was very telling about how much time was wasted throughout the day.

Depends on a type of work that one does, for many office jobs today more hours spent working doesn't always translate into more work done. I personally find that taking frequent short breaks surfing web, reading news, checking FB and YT, etc. helps me keep focused and way more productive.

I simultaneously believe that you're correct about short breaks helping focus, that people who understand this effect tend to overestimate it in ways that help them rationalise procrastination, and that the renewed focus gained from a short walk or meditation is probably more helpful than whatever focus is gained from engaging in activities that require the social functions of your brain to kick in.

Individual personalities probably also play a big role here, how introvert/extrovert you are, and how much other social interactions do you have. Working from home can be lonely so virtual social interactions might be of higher importance to me than to, say, some introvert locked whole day in open space office full of people.

> Just don’t do it. If its not work related, stop.

I see where you’re coming from. I personally don’t use work computers for anything other than work related matters. However, I also know that this is not typically how work computers are used. Some people watch Netflix or Youtube clips during lunch. While I’m aware that there are secured environments where certain services are blocked due to security requirements (as they should be), many people work in environments where streaming Youtube or Netflix is not a security concern.

To get back on point, I think the issue of browsing while at work is one having to do with being reasonable: if employees choose to browse while at work then they should do so in a way which is reasonable to others. Looking at the odd Youtube clip here and there after someone brought it up in conversation is reasonable (assuming the content is Sfw, but that’s a whole other discussion). I listen to music while programming, using Apple music and Spotify. I know other people who use the Youtube streaming service.

Would you be able to name and shame? Which FANG is this?

Probably signed NDA to get severance.

It might be enough to know it was one of the four. The next time a recruiter calls from any of them, it'd be worth asking them about this and what policies they have to protect engineers from abusive management. If enough engineers express concern, a policy change may come down the line.

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