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Comment by tomlock | Hacker News Reader

> A full 80% [of US] believe that “political correctness is a problem in our country.” … The woke are in a clear minority across all ages. … Progressive activists are the only group that strongly backs political correctness: Only 30% see it as a problem.

This is because the definition of "political correctness" is different from person to person. It conveniently drifts so people can think they're against some common problem when in reality some people use it to veil homophobia, and others to complain about postmodernism.

It's a convenient term, but useless. You call someone politically correct and they'll say no. You learn nothing about their position, you only get to engage in some petty name calling. Feels good, right? Maybe we should stick to the factual matters, the specifics of what legislation and culture is too "politically correct" for you.

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The article explains what is meant by political correctness in this case:

What people mean by “political correctness.” … [is] their day-to-day ability to express themselves: They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice, could lead to serious social sanctions for them.

It's about a careless word, a misinterpretation, an honest mistake or as little as stating a fact in a questionable context being able to ruin a person's life.

> They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice

What topic? What word choice?

My point stands.

The article is talking about people using political correctness to bully others. A specific choice of topic and words is not important here.

Oh but it is, if a choice of words determines if someone is being bullied or not.

That's exactly the point: a choice of words should not lead to bullying.

That's not the point the article is making.

I think you are right that few people self-describe as "politically correct". Could you suggest a short alternative phrase that would improve Hanson's article? Or do you feel that word-choice aside, the referent itself does not exist?

Political correctness, as a phrase, does not adequately convey meaning in the same way "common sense" does not.

OK, let's accept that. What's a better phrase that Hanson could use instead, and while still making the same general argument? I agree that "political correctness" is pejorative, but I also think there is some real underlying phenomenon that Hanson is pointing at. What's a less charged term that he can use to better convey his point without creating unnecessary offense?

Perhaps the author could just describe the underlying "real" phenomena. Do you really feel like the author is incapable of doing that? Why?

I think the author describes it well, and makes quite clear that he is using Yascha Mounck's definition from a recent article in the Atlantic: "What people mean by “political correctness.” … [is] their day-to-day ability to express themselves: They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice, could lead to serious social sanctions for them. (quotes, ellipses and brackets in original)

He then links to the full piece that contains this definition: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majo....

To write an article about this concept, he needs some short phrase. My guess was that the issue you had with the article was not a lack of clarity, rather a lack of charity. Like "Social Justice Warrior", or "cultural Marxism", or other terms that people use predominately to refer to ideologies they disagree with, calling it "political correctness" makes it hard to to have a productive discussion with anyone who doesn't already agree. As someone who seems to take offense to the current phrase, I was hoping you might be able to suggest a less offensive alternative that would be equally clear.

> To write an article about this concept, he needs some short phrase.

Really? Perhaps the author could have dispensed with the use of the term altogether and just talked about...

> their day-to-day ability to express themselves: They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice, could lead to serious social sanctions for them.

...and then referred to that as "their concern". But I think the author deliberately reached for the vague, inflammatory and loaded, but convenient name. I think it is simpler to ascribe this to a lack of desire to have a genuine conversation, than a lack of reader charity. Perhaps if the author was attempting to provoke genuine discussion, that attempt would be clear in their choice of words. I'm not particularly keen to write this article for the author in a clearer manner than the one they managed.

than a lack of reader charity

I'm sorry if that came across as accusing. I meant to imply that the author would benefit from more charitable language, not that the reader had failed to supply it. I now see that it could also be read the other way.

Yeah sorry, my interpretation probably comes from philosophy where people are often told to take a "charitable" interpretation of the text they're reading.

I think we agree.

I believe that most of this can be solved with better concept of respect. For myself, I choose not to use words that needlessly incite fear in others, or words that create an environment that makes them fear for their safety, or also needlessly and knowingly makes them feel bad about themselves.

It does seem that respect is lacking more and more these days.

The article explains what the article means by political correctness.

The survey question reported in the so-called "Hidden Tribes" report, from which the article derives its statistics, does not explain what is meant by 'political correctness'. It means whatever the respondent thinks it means.

According to that I'd say conservative churches and religious University campuses are the biggest PC things out there.

Much like being against "special interests", yeah all the bad ones I hate right on!

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