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Comment by Kiro | Hacker News Reader

Wait, business class and first class aren't the same? Never seen a plane with three classes.

It's only really a thing in long haul, where these days there are usually at least 4 classes: economy, premium economy (same cabin, slightly more legroom, sometimes a larger entertainment screen), business and first (and sometimes tiers of first e.g. cabin class).

Premium economy IME is not just a little more legroom, its more akin to a domestic first class experience. Wider chairs, better meal, better booze selection, etc...

Note that "Premium Economy" is a newer term being thrown around and is different than Economy Plus, Comfort Plus and such that airlines throw around to denote the same economy seats with an extra 6 inches in front of you and maybe a free drink/snack.

British Airways flies four classes on long haul flights.

First is like business, except your coat gets its own closet next to your seat, and you get Johnnie Walker Blue instead of Red like the plebes in business class ;)

Nobody sees 3 classes because the entrance to Economy (or Business) is usually aft of First class (in some airports First has a dedicated bridge - or Business has a dedicated floor like in several 380/747s).

Moral for capitalism: obfuscation is the key to avoiding class resentment?

Not all planes have 3 classes. Some have 6. It's all pretty arbitrary, I don't think it's actually set in stone anywhere what "class" means.

Like I've been on flights with value economy, economy, economy plus, economy premium, business, first, first (premier? Or something). I've also been on flights that were "general," but if you paid 44$ extra you get a giant padded seat easily as big as or bigger than some first class seats I've seen.

Depends which airlines you fly internationally - A lot, if not all, of american airlines are increasingly moving towards removing first class from their international flights & having business class as their premium cabin offering - e.g. Delta with DeltaOne or United with Polaris. If you want to truly experience first class, it'd have to be one of the middle eastern airlines or British Airways, Singapore Airlines and the likes.

Correct, they aren't the same, but usually only larger airplanes (747-400, A380 etc.) have a first class and only for very long haul (> 12 hour?) flights.

See e.g. https://onemileatatime.com/emirates-a380-first-class-vs-busi...

British Airways have first class on the LHR/SEA route, ten and a half hours.

They also used to have first class on a daily 747 between London and Moscow, around 4 hours. (I'm not sure if they still do, but they did in 2014 and 2015 because I flew it both years!). Not to mention the cash cow East Coast USA destinations or upmarket bucket and spade Caribbean flights, none of which are 12hrs.

There are quite a few non-US airlines that have a first class on much shorter flights, like Europe to the East coast or Europe to Gulf countries. Sometimes in single decker planes.

I know people who fly first class between say, Heathrow and JFK, mostly for the VIP hand-holding at both airports, that can save you a lot of time.

Actually quite often on long intercontinental hauls, the front section has usually 2 subsections - you can see it on the seating arrangements (something about better bigger seats vs couch-style where you can properly lie horizontally) - at least those are differences as seen from peasant's perspective

International flights generally have 3 (or lately, 4 with basic economy and economy plus) classes.

As the article notes, US domestic and inter-europeans flights never have more than two classes and the "first" in the US is not much more than what you get in coach.

It's not true to say "never", at least as far as intra-Europe is concerned, due to a mixture of fifth-freedom flights and a handful of other anomalies. e.g. Emirates put a long-haul 777-300 in business class between Larnaca and Malta, LATAM fly their 787 between Madrid and Frankfurt. Furthermore, both BA and Iberia fly long-haul equipment between London and Madrid once a day (last time I checked; I've flown the A340 on this route).

It’s dead in the US but quite alive in other markets, especially Asia and the Middle East.

Some airlines even have four class planes with the rise of premium economy.

Most have 4 classes

Jesus christ, the downvotes here have gotten out of hand lately. Here someone is asking a genuine question and getting obliterated for it. How did anybody come to the conclusion that this comment needed to be buried?

That comment was posted only ~19 minutes before yours. That's not enough time to predict where it will end up on the voting spectrum. It only takes a handful of downvotes to start turning grey, and only a handful of upvotes to recover.

Totally agree! HN has become much more of a loose cannon recently (and rapidly) with downvotes, and you'll often see entire threads of conversation greyed out. I've recently started to just search for older threads and read through them, rather than trying to converse here. If you use that new 'past' button at the top and go back a few years... it's really disappointing to compare.

We're here to learn, not to downvote dissenting or uneducated opinions. HN should be about becoming more correct, not just promoting those who are already 'right.'

Threads on climate change are one of the best comparisons, where people could argue they didn't believe it and others would (mostly) debate rather than downvote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10691804

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