Most coders have sleep problems, need 'hygiene and care' | Hacker News Reader

Most coders have sleep problems, need 'hygiene and care'

theregister.co.uk

21 pointsdb4228 comments

The test subjects were 91 software engineers [...].

[...] no fewer than 20.9 per cent [...] and a further 35.2 per cent [...]

Sorry, but I can't take a study serious that has less than 100 participants and presents results with a place after the decimal point.

Not to mention some serious sampling bias. The reason for stress could be cultural or geographic. To say it's because they're coders is silly.

"The test subjects were 91 software engineers working at a Mysore-based development firm."

I initially read "Mysore" as a strange spelling for "Missouri" and then realized Mysore is a city in India.

"Lifestyle management programmes which include sleep hygiene and care should be incorporated as a policy matter in the IT industry."

Yes, because adults need other adults to tell them when they should go to sleep..

All you really need is management that knows a thing or two about software engineering and a bit of a "don't worry, we'll fix it tomorrow, go home"-attitude. If you're a manager and your team is constantly stressed out, you should be fired immediately.

I don't think it's entirely a management issue.

There are plenty of coders working normal hours then coding into the night on personal projects and missing sleep as a result. It's almost become a macho thing amongst developers - when was the last time you pulled an all-nighter, how many hours have you put into project X.

When actually it should be the opposite... The less time you need to code a project, the better coder you are.

Ha! The key phrase is the following: "The test subjects were 91 software engineers working at a Mysore-based development firm." It must suck to work there...

I don't know, I work at my university as a mobile software engineer and I have trouble going to sleep at night as well.

It's hard to think about a million different problems a day and how to solve them then just cut all that off at 10-11 or so each night.

It probably doesn't help that coding is my hobby as well as my profession, so it really doesn't ever get turned off.

2 things that in combination completely eliminate sleep issues for me:

- f.lux (time of day dependent display colour temperature)

- physical exercise

If I drop either for more than a few days, I'm back in insomnia land. If I exercised every single day, I'm sure I wouldn't need f.lux. Unfortunately, exercise takes quite a bit of willpower in winter (no nearby gyms).

f.lux is really great, it helped me a lot as well.

Same here. I've been using f.lux for the past month or so, it seems to help with getting back to a 'normal' sleep schedule. I mostly wanted to start sleeping earlier so that I would get more daylight during the winter.

I wonder if there's correlation between below-average physical activity and insomnia? I assume that a lot of coders---by necessity of their task and the tools they use---spend most of a week sitting as opposed to, say, a mail carrier or store clerk. Given that we're a species that evolved to leverage mobility for our survival, it's not a stretch to imagine that our bodies developed a dependency on lactic acid buildup and other "fatigue toxins" as one of the signals that sleepytime is at hand.

Has anyone done this study? It seems like a pretty straightforward study to do if some grad student out there is looking for a paper.

It's a recurring topic on HN. There seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence for it.

It's not just that it is hard to turn off your mind, it's that I find it extremely tempting to get up and actually code up a solution to the problem that's on my mind instead of staying in bed. Thinking "It'll just take 10 minutes & then I'll go back to bed." is a very bad habit to develop.

Just write your thoughts on a piece of paper. Perhaps that won't draw you into staying up longer and longer.

I've learned over the years that if I come up with something useful as I try to fall asleep, instead of hopping out of bed, I just consciously save it for the morning. It's like waking up with a gift. And often the brain has done some useful offline optimizing.

To shut down the problem-solving machinery I usually fantasize about being starting point guard for the Lakers. May sound silly for a grown man, but it works for me.

Night owl coder here. It comes with the job I think, our job is creative and our minds toy with us to no end.

I have found I can "cut off" the deep thoughts by writing them down. I keep a notebook next to my bed and if I can't fall asleep because of something I want to program, I will write out everything about it in the notebook. After that, I'm far more relaxed because I am not worried about losing the knowledge once I fall asleep.

Have you tried to cut coffee and take tea instead? Cutting alcohol in the week may also help you sleeping better. Doing a small jogging also helps losing some energy and can facilitate sleep.

Concerning your point, from your comment it seems like you are still young. At some point, you'll have to find a more sustainable pace. Most engineers I know have a family to support, like to do their job well, and thus need to have an overall good life hygiene.

There is something magic in the mind when you work until late, it seems that the lack of distractions really help, but if your body is not prepared, the next day you loose al the time that you have saved triying just to be wake up.

> "Lifestyle management programmes which include sleep hygiene and care should be incorporated as a policy matter in the IT industry."

I really wonder how would they consider puling this off. :)

Most coders(like me) are by nature caffeine addicted and expose themselves to insomnia just for the fun of getting some really cool job done. It's up to the coders to find out for themselves where are their boundaries(biological), and since most coders are probably intelligent people, I think they won't have much difficulty with this. In other words: we need no nanny.

Today I got up at 3am. At least I get a lot done, there aren't too many distractions at that time of day.

I get up at 345am, seven days a week and haven't missed a day for months. Productivity gain has been huge for me. No one bothers me for about six hours after I get up, which is a long time....

So let's summarize: 50 of the 91 coders who work for a given company have mild to severe insomnia.

That really doesn't warrant the ridiculously vague and sensationalistic title we ended up with.

Going to sleep at 3AM and waking up at 9AM for work. Yep. :/

just to mention a few: - natural light light bulbs - walk outside during daytime, under sunlight as weather permits - only go to bed when sleepy

Drink water a lot. I sometimes not drink enough and get real bad headaches by the end of the day.

So all I need to be a great programmer is just stop sleeping and bathing. Thanks HN!

The headline is a little misleading. The word "hygiene" means more than just "cleanliness", although the two are frequently used interchangeably. In this case, it refers specifically to "sleep hygiene", which is a medical term for sleep-related behaviors conducive to health (setting a regular sleep schedule, getting enough sleep, not consuming food/caffeine/alcohol too close to bedtime, etc.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene

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