Comment by redleggedfrog | Hacker News Reader

Comment by redleggedfrog | Hacker News Reader

I hate to say this, but we brought this on ourselves. It's just one aspect of the decline of America.

At one time, we could identify with, "Land of the free, home of the brave." I remember my Grandpa, saying that to me, and then telling me, "So kid, stay free, and be brave about it. I did my best, and when you grow up, do yours, right? You're an American." Of course, I'm like 10 and know nothing of the world, but I honest felt like I was part of a greater thing, that I was now going to be following in the footsteps of Grandpa.

Then I grow up, and America slowly gives away her freedoms. Not just personal freedom, but the freedom to excel. The middle class slowly fades, education becomes prohibitively expensive. Upward mobility wanes.

Then 911 happens and America loses it's shit. We're shown to just be a bunch of pansies. We react by becoming a (worse) global bully, frightened and trying to control the uncontrollable. And we trade freedom for perceived safety. Ever think the Patriot Act will be allowed to expire?

Then of course we get the perfect to represent the coward bully that is now all of us.

And oh boy do we like our guns and drugs. Now that's the new America. That's our refuge. More guns, and more drugs. We suck down so many drugs that the rest of the world works really hard to keep us supplied. We work hard to keep us supplied (Afghanistan).

And then lastly, we isolate ourselves, unable to make friends, interacting over the internet instead of in person. We shape our world and ideas with constant confirmation bias. We work hard to reinforce our prejudices. Nation of tribal haters. The charade of Democrat and Republican and Ford vs. Chevy and Cowboys vs Patriots. Choose a side, get angry, espouse.

So what's left in an America like that for a man? Sure, it affects women to, much the same, but as a man I particularly feel it. This ain't my America, the one I read about from our past. It's seriously depressing.

This might seem like pining for the old days. "Things are better than ever now!" you say. So, really? Why are people opting out in record numbers then?

None of those things should have any impact on your daily life. If you didnt plug into the internet (your choice) you wouldnt know about any of those things and they simply wouldnt matter.

I live in the same country and I have a great life based on the actual people around me, not based on news media that pulls the worst things from around the country to try to generate more clicks.

You think it's possible to unplug from the internet? All you have to do is to talk to one living person in America to feel the cultural impact of social media and the internet. There is no unplugging. Unless you go start a commune in the middle of no where. You can't just turn this off, it's in every aspect of our society. I agree putting yourself on a media diet is a good thing, but my diet isn't going to get my friends in shape.

Today I worked from home. Had a nice cup of tea. Listened to classical music and spend a number of hours getting aws cli to play nicely with org more. I used the internet without touching social media for 18 hours and this is not unusual. Get off the outrage machine and do something with your life. The only people who benefit from you constantly being outraged are the ones selling you the outrage.

I'm doing great. I'm very disconnected from most outrage media. Haven't used social media in forever. Have plenty of close friends, and family. Successful career. Also working from home today.

I'm just saying the outrage machine is unavoidable. I've had friends and family that are deeply effected by it even if they don't openly admit it. Friends that are in rehab for opioids. Friends and co-workers that do nothing but smoke pot so they don't have to worry about their lives. Family members that became fox news addicts and blatant racists. I'd even argue that you're effected by it. You have to actively avoid it right? You understand the outrage machine and have actively decided to disconnect yourself from that world. Not saying that you're doing the wrong thing, just saying the outrage machine effects everyone. People that aren't particularly smart, financially successful, strong or mentally stable get hit by it much worse.

Sure, it’s possible and plenty of people do turn it off or minimize use. Internet use is voluntary, and one can choose their level of use/interaction with it. Try it for a week! Unplug and just live your life.

I’ve always thought one of the few real extraordinary strengths of the USA culturally is the extent to which “going off grid” is acceptable. If you want to, you can live a fine life without social media, Netflix, and cable TV. If you want, you can move to the middle of nowhere, dig a well and put up solar panels. You can homeschool your kids. You can hunt your own food. Not all of these things require lots of money. Compared to many places in the developed world, by and large you have an extraordinary ability to choose your own level of societal interdependence.

All of those things are "lots of money" if you are living paycheck to paycheck. They are even lots of money if you make six figures and save 25% of your income.

Yea I agree. You can definitely disconnect completely from society. I've been off social media for a while and don't really follow much outrage media. But you can't tell your friends and family what to do. They can still have an unhealthy fixation on the latest media/culture war and unless you disconnect from those people it will become a part of your life. Technically you can always be a hermit. I just don't find that a very appealing choice.

You've made some undeniably good points, and it is true that the current state of our country is in many ways lamentable, but a fair analysis of our current condition reveals that the negative news is only half the story; it is important to keep in mind the dualistic nature of our situation, both for ourselves as individuals, and for the greater society we are components of.

Alongside all of the tragedies you mentioned, an entire host of miracles have occurred as well. Technological advances in healthcare show no sign of slowing, market forces (and public pressure) are slowly but surely moving us toward a future powered by green energy, US-based companies are now sending missions to the ISS and mass-producing electric vehicles, and the USA still has the greatest institutions of higher learning in the world. On a minor technical note that may seem insignificant but is near and dear to my own heart: it's 2019 and there are now more flavors of *Nix (and users of the same) than ever before - free software is still going strong despite the tech behemoths' anti-choice tendencies. On the front page of HN right now is a story about the mass exodus of users from FaceBook (an indicator that the public is waking up to the damaging effects of emotionally-predatory social media).

In the political sphere, too, there are signs of significant improvement. The 2018 midterm elections revealed a public who is more informed about and interested in governmental oversight than at any point in the past decade at least, more attention than ever is being paid to white-collar corruption and chicanery, the best efforts of our unindicted co-conspirator in-chief (and his merry band of sycophants) haven't succeeded in quashing the myriad investigations into his (and his family's) business and political activities, and the most popular politician in the country (according to some recent polls) is an avowed anti-corruption advocate who supports universal healthcare, a resolution of wealth inequality, and an end to endless overseas warfare. On your drug points: every major contender for the Democratic presidential nominee (that I'm aware of) favors a rebalancing of federal drug enforcement priorities to bring sanity to the discussion (funding for research into the use of psychedelic drugs for therapy & the decriminalization of marijuana). On the gun front: there has never been more public support for (slightly) more sane gun restrictions than there are now.

There are many places we need to improve, but there is much to be grateful for, optimistic about, and proud of as well. The reason I say this is not in an attempt to refute or mitigate your points, but to emphasize the need to periodically remove oneself from the negative data streams and pay attention to the good evidence as well.

Political choices matter.

political choices are completely irrelevant to your ability to have a happy life.

People living in garbage dumps are able to figure out to be happy.

All of that, except obviously 9/11, has been that way since 'the old days'

The American dream was always unsustainable. It relied (and still does) on exponential growth, the idea of unlimited free land, and the exploitation of other nations.

Wow what a depressing idea! Of course with advancing technology we get more and more for less and less. The American Dream is very achievable. Not some imaginary infinite-resource world, but a society where everybody can work reasonable hours and have their own place. It doesn't rely on any exponential growth ideas at all. There are only so many Americans, and only so many needs.

And America was built on our own industry - the rest of the world had marginal input. Sure greed ran over our borders, but that was a sad side effect and not necessary for America's amazing growth.

We have different definitions of the American dream. Just the idea of 'your kids should have a better life than you had," which I think has been fundamental to the dream seems unsustainable.

Our infrastructure grows and technology makes things cheaper. Why not a steady state where everyone has enough? With growing automation, fewer have to work and then not as hard. That could be a better life for everyone if we could make it equitable.

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