Boeing acquires flight-planning app maker ForeFlight | Hacker News Reader

Boeing acquires flight-planning app maker ForeFlight

houstonchronicle.com

90 pointslxm44 comments

As a long time user and a big fan of Foreflight, this announcement chilled me to my very core. Jeppesen is the very definition of rent seeking, predatory, lock-in company. I deal with them because there is literally no other source for the data my airplane’s avionics need to fly legally in our IFR airspace.

Foreflight offers everything Jeppesen offers (other than avionics data subscriptions) in a vastly cheaper and more usable manner.

Boeing also bought Jeppesen a few decades ago- I was a pre Boeing Jeppesen customer too. I feel a dreadful surety that new Foreflight will become predatory like Jeppesen. There were already signs that way, anyway, with each round of new features requiring a “higher level” of subscription with Foreflight.

Oh well, technology company startup costs being what they are (almost nil) I will excitedly await the next entrant if my fears are realized.

PS: Non professional use for me.

Jeppesen is to flight planning software and mapping tools, as Oracle is to database software licensing.

It's super scary, especially because ForeFlight has no realistic competition.

I've had this off-again, on-again plan (more like dream) to write an open-source ForeFlight clone, as I used to write aviation mapping software for a living and could probably throw something passable together. But the application's sheer quantity of high quality features makes the project super-daunting. It's unrealistic to believe that a group of amateurs without a budget could even come close to replicating it.

I've heard Garmin pilot stacks up reasonably well

All two party competitive games become duopolies.

I doubt this will impact the costs of Foreflight. There is already competition in this space in the form of Garmin Pilot, WingX, and Fltplan Go.

For the record, I think ForeFlight is honestly the best app I've ever used. In terms of depth, reliability, and ease of use it is really unmatched not just in aviation but in any app I use on a daily basis.

Giving all the information and capabilities a pilot needs is a hard problem.

Amen!

What are the hard parts and what does ForeFlight get right?

There is just SO MUCH information. Airport diagrams, approach and departure plates (geo-referenced), all the different charts (sectionals, TACs, IFR hi and low, etc), checklists, radio frequencies, route planning, airspaces, weather, NOTAMs, TFRs, etc. I'm sure I'm leaving off tons of stuff. The flight planning features are fantastic.

Synthetic Vision, terrain avoidance.. also flight logs (including automatically determining currency.)

ForeFlight is amazingly good and fully leveraged the power of the new iPad pros as well. Literally the best app. They also didn’t compromise by trying to do some kind of cross-platform attempt. It’s supremely optimized for iOS hardware. An electronic flight bag app that can perform just as well as the G1000 glass cockpit. Combined with the Stratus receiver, it’s even better because it gives you traffic and weather data in flight.

If there was ever a use case for not using some kind of pseudo-native framework in favor of real-native, this is it. Glass cockpit applications are the last place you want lowest common denominator code. It works great on even the iPad mini, but it really flies on the new iPad Pro.

Another cool feature is that you can use it with the X-Plane simulator. Amazing app and so inexpensive for what it does. The most expensive plan is $300 per year and the cheap plan is $99/year. I never fly without it.

I presume that it is meant for private pilots, i.e. commercial pilots would be required to use the airline supplied charts and checklists?

No, it can be and is used by pilots of all flavors. I have a commercial rating but not an ATP and use it every time I fly.

As another commenter mentioned not true. There are various levels of commercial pilots. Not all commercial pilots fly for a large airline or shipping company.

Even though most commercial planes have a full avionics stack it usually isn't as good as for flight for most features.

For a VFR pilot, flight planning with available wind alofts forecast is very simple with helpful routing to avoid restricted areas, class B airspace, active TFRs, etc.

Single-click flight plan activation (and closing) is also as simple as it can be.

I literally bought the first iPad as a platform to run ForeFlight. Two years of charts and plates were costing me more than the iPad and two years of ForeFlight would so it was like getting a free iPad and much easier charting and cockpit management.

Was interesting to see the evolving attitude of instructors to it. Initially the curmudgeons were dead against it. Now, most of them to seem to use it.

No experience of aviation myself. But my uneducated reaction is what happens if the ipad falls and breaks or runs out of battery? A paper chart always works. Do you typically have a spare ipad on board?

At the time, I was flying an airplane that only had the iPad for charts and carried one set of expired paper sectional charts and had a handheld aviation GPS.

I have since upgraded to an airplane with glass avionics and onboard charts and plates. Now, I have the onboard materials plus my iPhone also has the charts on it.

For visual flight, it wouldn't be that hard to navigate by looking outside the window. For instrument flight (or visual flight if needed), it would be easy enough to ask ATC for the assistance you needed.

I keep two iPads and backup charts. Also have a mount where it doesn't fall.

I've had the iPad over heat in one plane though which was annoying.

Looking at comments, everyone has their personal jet or im missing something?

Probably that's because only people who are related somehow to planes / app / etc leave comments in here.

It's the same when people share only their bright moments in social media and you begin to think that you're missing something in your miserable daily routine. While in reality you just see exclusively bright moments and nothing behind the scenes.

Nice example of over-generalization, ty.

A lot of people are aviation enthusiasts without actually owning a plane. I flew general aviation for years borrowing and renting small aircraft. It’s not cheap but certainly more affordable than buying and within reach of most people with a decent income.

You can buy a single engine piston plane used for $20K. At the top end of new models about $700K.

Flying in general costs $10K a year or so if you fly a fair amount, imagine that's affordable to most people with tech jobs who know React or hack Linux :) I'm sure lots of people spend that on drinking in a year.

You can reliably get boats for free on Craigslist (less reliably if you want said boat to have an engine and come with with a trailer). Marriage licenses are not expensive.

You know what they say. Some things are cheaper to rent.

I used to work for a (GA) aircraft mechanic so the cost of ownership is not a totally unknown quantity to me. If I want an expensive hobby I'm going to get a boat. The only way flying can be reasonably cheap is if you go home-built and avoid most of the FAA related cost increases.

I spent half the cost of the airplane out of pocket my first year. Looks like year two will be 10%. Heard from lots of people that they didn't have my year 1 costs in 10 years, so YMMV.

Running out of things that can break so hopefully the bleeding stops.

You can buy a half decent cessna 172 for $35,000 , it's not totally a hobby for millionaires. Figure $100 to $150 per hour flight cost including maintenance.

Having worked at Boeing, it's strange to imagine such an acquisition. Boeing is the polar opposite of a software startup, and ForeFlight's about-page shows them to be founded by software entrepreneurs. I will be impressed if they can make this work. What does Boeing hope to get from this that they couldn't get from them as a partner or supplier?

> What does Boeing hope to get from this that they couldn't get from them as a partner or supplier?

Boeing gets a guarantee that no other company will acquire this app.

Boeing is a lot more high tech than people give them credit for. In my opinion, Boeing could only serve to benefit ForeFlight as now the company has significant backing as well as deeper access into cutting edge flight systems tech.

>Boeing is a lot more high tech than people give them credit for

I'm sitting in a Boeing lab right now as a contractor, and I would disagree with this statement

Boeing owns Jeppesen, which specialises in flight planning and related software, so it's a very natural strategic acquisition. And there's no shortage of potential projects where Boeing could use the support of a team that's really good at aviation UX too...

Boeing and Airbus both have their own incubators for small startups so it's not like they're totally averse to the SV mindset when it doesn't conflict with their regulatory and safety processes.

Boeing gets to integrate Foreflight into their Jeppesen product line. Jeppesen’s FliteDeck Pro is the product all of the heavily regulated operators like airlines are using in the US. The current iteration of FliteDeck Pro from Jeppesen is kind of a disaster. On a last gen iPad Pro their map page frequently chokes if you turn on too many layers. It also constantly has a weird bug where it gets locked on the airport moving map animation and can’t get out to other charts. Many in the airline industry are excited for the next release of FliteDeck Pro as it will use Foreflight under the hood, hopefully fixing many of these issues.

Big fan of ForeFlight, as are my favorite pilot YouTubers Matthew Guthmiller(N367HP) and Stevo1kinevo (N851TB). Hopefully Boeing keeps the wind in the sails of the ForeFlight team.

Don't forget Josh Flowers - Aviation101!

It's weird to read about Stevo1kinevo on HN... :)

I will throw in a flightchops and premier1driver to satisfy the entire query!

Indeed! Seems like there are quite a few aviators here on HN. I'll be impressed the day I casually see someone mention a Robin DR400 aircraft... (more or less unknown in the US, but the most common training aircraft here in France, and I believe in Germany too).

Also flyingdoodles, rather new entrant but entirely enjoyable.

This is the most reliable, highest utility app I have ever used. It’s worth every penny.

My son is a big fan of the Infinite Flight sim, which recently integrated with ForeFlight. He's really going to be bummed out if Boeing decides to stop supporting that link.

How does Infinite Flight compare to the mobile version of X-Plane 10?

I think it's pretty fun that X-Flight 10 mobile has, for example, the full version of their in-house Boeing 737. It pales in comparison to some of the 3rd party offerings for desktop X-Plane, but for a flight simulator on a mobile device it has very impressive system depth, with a working FMC and all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaJuIfqYRPY

However, manipulating all those buttons on an iPad touchscreen is not the most comfortable and has some quirks (you kind of need to look at the button in the right angle, for example). Is that better in Infinite Flight?

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Here's my approach to this issue in Firefox:

1. Right click - Inspect Element 2. Right click on containing node in Inspector Panel - Delete Node 3. Read article

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