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Comment by Topolomancer | Hacker News Reader

As befits HN, I also want to pitch the Meditations by Marcus Aurelius here. Being written for himself, it has a very different tone (no athletic coach, but rather a somewhat world-weary, if benevolent, uncle). Fundamentally, it treats similar ideas, though.

I also stumbled over a very interesting quote from the article:

> In other words, think of every unreasonable asshole you > have to deal with as part of God’s attempt to “turn you > into Olympic-class material.” This is a very powerful > trick.

The _exact_ same trick is practiced in many (traditional) Christian faiths---but I have the feeling that placing it in that context would alienate many modern readers (and in the worst cases, it comes relatively close to the prosperity gospel stuff).

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Let me take this opportunity to plug standardebooks.org (no affiliation) - nicely curated and carefully formatted free ebooks. They have a couple of books related to Stoicism.

Here are the Meditations:

https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/marcus-aurelius/meditation...

And The Enchiridion (by Epictetus):

https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/epictetus/the-enchiridion/...

And Seneca's Dialogues:

https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/seneca/dialogues/aubrey-st...

This site is interesting. Thanks for sharing. Curious : whether the proofreading and formatting here are better than Gutenberg public domain ebooks ? And, whether taking the EPUB and converting to AZW3 using calibre gets the same features as taking the AZW3 from this website ?

Let me quote from the "About" page:

> HOW’S THIS DIFFERENT FROM PROJECT GUTENBERG OR OTHER FREE EBOOK SITES?

> While there are plenty of places where you can download free and accurately-transcribed public domain ebooks, we feel the quality of those ebooks can often be greatly improved.

> For example, Project Gutenberg, a major producer of public-domain ebooks, hosts epub and Kindle files that sometimes lack basic typographic necessities like curly quotes; some of those ebooks are automatically generated and can’t take full advantage of modern ereader technology like popup footnotes or popup tables of contents; they sometimes lack niceties like cover images and title pages; and the quality of individual ebook productions varies greatly.

Not sure about the Calibre conversion. I normally convert EPUBs to MOBI using Calibre (and switching to left aligned, right ragged), but on StandardEbooks I've been downloading the AZW3.

Hi there, I'm the lead on this project. Yes, our proofreading and formatting is better than Gutenberg. That's the entire point of the project. No, using Calibre to convert epub to azw3 won't quite produce the same output as our special azw3. We do use Calibre in our build process to do much of the heavy lifting, but there are also other adjustments made that Calibre doesn't do.

I read a Buddhist thing, I forget what exactly, saying that when someone really bugs you in your life, think "Thank you, teacher of patience!". The gratefulness really turns things around magically. That was very helpful for me at that time in my life!

What if Marcus Aurelius were a software developer? https://codeandtechno.com/posts/stoicism-for-developers/

>The _exact_ same trick is practiced in many (traditional) Christian faiths

Unfortunately this is true, despite being complete heresy. One of the saddest things for an American Christian is how a huge portion of the church has diluted Christianity to an unbiblical set of self actualization themes.

I might be reading your comment incorrectly but why is this bad? There are a lot of ideas in the bible that are not relevant or helpful at all, the self actualization themes are at least useful.

Because there aren't any self actualization themes in the Bible. The Bible is about fallen man, reconciliation with God, and what should be done in response. Cherry picking and twisting the parts that sound nice to fit with the cultural values du jour is ignoring the core message.

The core theme of the bible is 'Your life is not (entirely) about you'. There is a danger of focusing too much on self-actualization (although I guess this danger is not restricted to that endeavour) and forgetting that one is also part of a society. Epictetus reminds the reader of this constantly, trying to make one feel at home in groups and alone :)

I agree with your view on American Christianity. But do you consider a milder variant of the statement in the article, namely something along the lines of 'Challenges can help me grow (in faith, in character, etc.)' to be heretical as well?

(just curious; no hidden agenda here)

The phrase "Challenges can help me grow" is specific to the individual; that is, how you choose to accept them. The phrase "God's plan" implies that you are claiming to understand it in terms of not only what has happened to you, but what will happen to you in the future. It is one part prophesy, one part imposing your own desires and will upon God.

I don't know that I would personally consider it "heretical" (especially since I am an agnostic by way of Catholicism) but that would be my stab at understanding the difference between the phrases.

Not at all, because the key distinction is what you are growing in. "Olympic class material" is very different from the spiritual growth in things like faith, love, peace that the Bible prescribes.

I think calling it heresy is a bit of a stretch. It's pretty close to what the Apostle Paul wrote to the church in Rome:

> but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame ...

I picked up the Meditations recently, expecting some profound insights, but it’s been a bit of a let down so far. Are there particular parts I should skip to? Has anyone found a translation they really like?

I actually loved the first quarter most. What I liked was the self-motivation exhibited in it. It's not so much insightful as reassuring. I guess if there was any insight, it's from the very first chapter - you can learn something from everyone around you.

I just finished Meditations. I would say he was _very_ world weary, there were many notes to himself about dealing with annoying or frustrating people, and not being surprised at their behaviour. I imagine as an emperor he had to deal with heaps of petitioners spewing absolute garbage and had to try very hard not to lose it.

That quote was my main takeaway from the article. I agree, it's a great mind trick. Good call.

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