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Comment by elamje | Hacker News Reader

This thread is like politics - ignoring the amazing fact that an electric vehicle that can travel 220 miles is 35k (where many hybrids and other electric cars are way over that price point), to discuss the nuances of Tesla’s business model and how they market delivery fees etc. Comical. People 10 years ago would say WTF if they knew a high tech, all electric car with self driving ability was even remotely near 40k(including autopilot).

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I don't know if you've heard, but the Chevrolet Bolt has been out for years now, and is also all-electric. MSRP has been about $30k after the federal tax credit.

I'd say its more likely we aren't in awe because the Model 3 has been overpromised and the "mass-market EV" feat has already been accomplished by someone else.

Of course, most people are like you in that they don't know that. Because GM is hilariously bad at marketing (and has no cult-of-personality founder promising grand visions).

> I don't know if you've heard, but the Chevrolet Bolt has been out for years now, and is also all-electric.

Isn't this the car that's being discontinued?

No. If you had done some basic google you'd find out the plug-in hybrid Chevrolet Volt has been discontinued.

To be fair, the Bolt/Volt confusion between an EV and a hybrid was just abysmal branding by GM. It's an incredibly easy mistake to make for people that aren't following this stuff closely.

It's kinda like how people think the self-driving company Cruise, mostly owned by GM, developed Super Cruise, GM's high-end driver assist system. Nope...nothing at all to do with each other. And neither have any relation to the Chevy Cruze, either.

I did, most articles call it Chevrolet Volt and don't offer a distinction.

Bolt is fugly, underperforms compared to Model 3, the entertainment center is clunky, less safe, requires you to go to a dealer, and lacks a super charging network. GM didn’t even try with the bolt.

The Bolt is not even close to the Model 3 in terms of power, looks, interior, ICE, etc. Model 3 sold nearly 40k cars through 2018 and the Bolt sold fewer than 9k. To call the Bolt a failure of marketing might be true but it ignores the fact that it is simply worse than the Model 3 in essentially 100% of the areas they overlap.

If the Bolt is "mass-market EV" the definition of "mass-market" needs to be revisited.

I don't disagree with you that the bolt is inferior.

I was simply explaining why HN was "ignoring the amazing fact that an electric vehicle that can travel 220 miles is 35k."

It's not worthy of awe and amazement if big old lazy GM met those standards years ago.

The iPhone wasn't a massive success because there were no other smart phones out there. It was that it was a much more compelling product than what the competitors were making.

The Bolt is the blackberry of EVs. Sure, on paper it checks the "mass market EV" boxes but no one is geeking out in cult-like fashion about Bolts like they do for iPhones and Teslas.

I mean, the iPhone was kind of the only good smartphone that was actually a "smart phone", when it came out. There was nothing even remotely comparable until they were a few years into Android. I remember even the first few lines of Droids that came out and they were substantially inferior products.

The main reasons to drive a Bolt are environmental and convenience of charging vs. filling up. The Model 3 looks and drives a lot better than most cars and has the added benefit of OTA updates. The downside is service though. Hopefully that's fixed by the time I need to use it.

BTW, Tesla sold a lot more than 40k model 3s in 2018. It was over 130k. Bolt was about 20k.

I see that point, but since Tesla has been around for a while now, consumers cannot keep giving them a pass solely because of the technical feats Tesla has achieved. They need to be held to the same criticism from the business standpoint as any other company would be (especially since Tesla is trying to position themselves as a middle-class-friendly option for EVs with the model 3).

I find that viewpoint a bit crazy. The competition has not caught up, in fact Tesla has rocketed ahead (slower than they promised but still).

By competition do you mean other EVs? If so, I agree with your point. I’m taking “competition” to mean tradition gas powered vehicles/big car manufacturers. Imo I think Tesla is picking a fight with gas powered manufacturers since they’re offering something at the same price point (ish).

Yes, people seem to be bringing in problems beyond Tesla's control.

Exaggerated E.g.

Tesla: You can only order online

HN: What if my internet is down? This is clearly a bad idea.

Don't do exaggerated e.g.'s, because the other name for them is 'lies'. I checked, there is not a single post in this comment section referencing the stability of an internet connection being a purchasing deterrent.

I'm not totally surprised that they're talking about the new business model so much, given what site we're on.

But my first thought was, "Wow! Should I trade in my car?"

And then, "Of course not. That'd be stupid. It's like 2 years old."

But man, had I known of this price drop, I might have waited and not bought my Mazda. (Which I love, but it isn't even a hybrid.)

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