It's so shady that their advertised price includes some hypothetical "potential gas savings", and the actual price is behind a tiny "learn more" link.
This is shameful and should be called out. Price is not the same thing as cost of ownership.
Is this some kind of intentional irony or something? Social Login force-tied to a specific company is Dark Pattern #1 in my books.
Edit: They define "dark pattern" at the top of their site:
> Dark Patterns are tricks used in websites and apps that make you buy or sign up for things that you didn't mean to.
That's exactly with Login With Twitter is. The user is presented with a simple option for logging in, but then is tricked by giving their metadata and account info that will 'sign them up' to be analyzed and targeted by Twitter for whatever purposes. Yes the TOS is probably there on social login, but aren't Long TOSs that are prompted in the middle of a user flow also Dark Patterns, as no user is likely to read them?
Can't possibly take that site seriously.
Edit 2: The darkest pattern from their site:
> We aren't great at responding to email — Twitter is best.
Yikes.
>Use Twitter to spread the word about Dark Patterns. It's the most effective way to put pressure onto companies to stop using Dark Patterns.
>Retweet, quote and favorite other people's tweets about Dark Patterns. >@mention the offending brands and tell them what you think about their practices.
>When you see a Dark Pattern, take screenshots and tweet it. Mention @darkpatterns or use the hashtag #darkpattern.
>If you've got an example that doesn't fit into a tweet, you can use a platform like medium or imgur, then tweet it.
The base price of a given vehicle is $35k, and then I'd spend either $1500/yr on fuel and maintenance o, or $500/yr on fuel and maintenance if it's - for example - electric, on top the of the base price.
Spending $1000 less per year does not magically mean the car is now $34k. If anything, the price has gone from $36.5k to $35.5k for that first year.
I don't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to do, or how ignorant you have to be to not understand that.
Unless I'm taking crazy pills? Someone please correct my logic otherwise.
I definitely don't agree with Teslas practices of framing it that way, I'd rather they just show cost of ownership comparisons across a variety of cars. Especially since they can't even meet the demand they currently have, why resort to shady practices?
But only if you arbitrarily include the difference in fuel costs, which makes Tesla look cheaper, and exclude the differences in insurance and maintenance costs, which make Tesla look more expensive.
And of course you have to include full cost, ICE can not run without it, and most people want to drive their car.
Of course these are avg numbers and you have to do it with your personal driving numbers and how long you want to keep the car to get a more detailed picture of the cost.
However overall, pretty much all EV have a significant large part of up front cost to ownership cost so its totally fair to point that out.
That said, Tesla is of course a company and they are pressing this point to aggressive and that is irritating to many of us. The overall point they are making however, is backed up by the data.
To be clear, I like the Model S and appreciate what Tesla has done to popularize EVs in some circles, but that’s not a ticket to be bonkers. Shady practices, obscene waits, hellish repair schedules, broken promises and a CEO who just can’t shut his mouth to save his life... it is very weird.
I love what they've accomplished in the field; the cars are genuinely very good; the exaggerations and outright lies are unnecessary and therefore infuriating to watch...
Haven't seen the desktop site, but on mobile the full price of $35k is clearly visible.
(with longer range than Model 3)
You linked to the Bolt-with-a-b, but said Chevy Volt-with-a-v.
Certainly the Bolt is comparable to the Model 3; the Volt not so much.
I picked up my Bolt for 30,900 in December of last year. (w/ fast charging option)
It'd be like if I got to go in to a hiring offer and was able to demand a million dollars a year so that any lower salary seemed like a value.
Also the same with the advertised monthly leasing prices that you see on commercials - all subject to credit and other circumstances.
So I'd guess that there's also a component of the high MSRP + large standard discounts which is also making sure that you don't come in expecting to pay an advertised price, get aaaallllmost all the way through the process, get the final price with tax that is ~10%/several k$ higher, and then crap out there both because it is a real kick in the pants and you may not have the extra money.
Only $LOW/Month*
* After large amount upfront.
I'm not sure this qualifies as "shady" when everything is displayed within the same viewport.
At least that's what it was like before; in Australia, the Model 3 configuration screen is apparently now stuck in an infinite redirect loop. It looks like it's unchanged, but I can't look at the page for more than a second.
It seems concerning that outright dishonesty in consumer-facing material for large purchases might reasonably be considered par for the course.
What an abject failure of industry leadership.
Good thing they weren't kind enough to include the amortized battery replacement costs or other differentials in operating costs, like a comparison between their repair and maintenance schedule to an industry average.
The price w/gas savings included at least makes it easier to compare against standard petrol vehicles.
It's kind of hard to rip on Tesla when the standard dealership model is nothing but shady advertising and sleazy sales tactics. They could get rid of the asterisk mark / learn more link and it would still somehow be more honest than going to any car dealership in the United States.
Sometimes I feel like Tesla gets judged in a vacuum. Kinda weird.
Model 3:
(50 kwh battery)
* (0.166 $/kwh for Los Angeles residential power)
/ (220 mi range)
= 3.8 $/100 mi of fuel
Average ICE sedan:
(3.00 $/gal average regular gas in LA)
/(30 mi/gal)
= 10 $/100 mi of fuel
So it's a reasonable number if you're a Californian who would have bought a BMW instead of a Model 3. For everyone else, it's likely too high.
Nicely done math. Based on Toyota etc.’s marketing claims I guess. In which case it might be around $6/100 miles (guesstimate) versus Tesla $3.8/100 miles.
On the flip side: you don't have to deal with dealerships, which are _much worse_
You just configure the car, give your credit card information, and done. This is unlike most other manufacturers which, even if they do give you a quote, will then hand you off to shady salespeople.
I must just be out of touch.
I’m sure credit card would work too if you had a high enough limit but those are the other options.
CapEx and OpEx are different animals.
Oh, wait, cloud. Server leases. I guess we do it all of the time.
Its still going out of your pocket, if its one or the other.
[0]: https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat...
It's completely unethical.
I guess computers should be considered free given that they enable so much productivity.
* Not sure if the low range model 3 is software limited.
After, my impression of Tesla is that it's incredibly shady and manipulative, and I have a great deal of anger at it because this page is disgustingly deceptive.
You've got to get a reasonable estimate of how much less likely I'm going to purchase a Tesla in the future, but before there was a nonzero chance I would, while in this moment I feel like I'll never purchase one. That's negative value, there.
It's deceptive enough--and 90% of people who saw that page would say that the costs of the cars are what's listed on the right column, which makes it deceptive--that it leaves a wildly unpleasant taste in my mouth. And, in my case, it's not even close to accurate: I don't own a car right now, and any purchase would be because I actively like a particular car. The "savings on gas" is a total lie, because I'll be spending nothing on gas anyway.
It’s not an imagined cost of ownership for me, an actual owner, who just got $7,500 back and pay $7 for 300mi.
The way they are selling these I would hope someone would be looking and clicking on that details button and really looking to make sure it is for them.
Does anyone have a good real world average for current wait times for delivery and service? Also wondering what these are for the flyover states (midwest) where I am at vs the coasts.
Where they show a video about full autonomous driving, talk a lot about full autonomous driving and then at the very bottom of the page write in very small print that "some jurisdictions" may not allow that at this time? Where "some" means probably "every one except lawless states like Somalia or so".
Tesla's specifically dividing their trims by range, but chose to use "standard range", "standard range plus", "long range", etc. instead of just telling us the range. And their "standard" range is well below the standard range of an average car.