Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued | Hacker News Reader

Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

kalzumeus.com

72 pointsfadolf14 comments

A brilliant quote from a Harvard Law School Negotiation Paper on the same topic:

"Instead, try to fgure out what pay category someone with your education and experience would receive, then build a case for a salary at the high end of that range. If an interviewer asks you to name your price, how should you respond? In their book 3-D Negotiation (Harvard Business School Press, 2006), Lax and James Sebenius recommend making a “non-ofer ofer,” or a statement that could anchor the discussion in your favor without seeming extreme. Suppose your research suggests that you would mostly likely fall into the $70,000 to $80,000 pay range, but the next-highest category seems within reach. Rather than saying, “I think I deserve $80,000,” consider saying, “Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve heard that people like me typically earn $80,000 to $90,000.” Notice that this statement is not a demand. Yet due to the powerful impact of the $80,000-to-$90,000 “anchor”—a reference point that may or may not be relevant to the discussion—it could very well steer the numbers toward your upper goal"

I learned over a decade ago that it's quite alright to ask for the top end of the salary range... And it's quite okay for a company to decline. If you have multiple offers on the table, you're going to be fine. If you have too many offers, and are interviewing too much, you probably aren't asking enough.

In the end, know what your market is paying... know what competing markets are paying too. If you're at the top of Phoenix, Austin or Atlanta market, know what SF, NYC, Seattle are paying for similar roles. Of course, you have to deliver too.

My last job search, I wound up with 4 competing offers near the top of the range... in the end, I just asked for an extra week of vacation, and that became a deciding factor. There's no shame in negotiating, and you will probably mess up, but that's how you learn.

I agree and recently used a similar tactic to GP last year. I figured out what Atlanta was paying for the specific technology and found a few similar cities with their salary ranges. It helps if you know a few Engineer managers who can look up pay scales for you.

Next time I will politely push the envelope further. I had two competing offers. Asked for the top end and it worked.

The other suprise question is the “How much are you currently making?” trap. I politely said if it was a condition of being hired I can share my pay but I know I’m very underpaid at the moment compared to the market. Took the job with a 40% pay increase without having to discuss my prior salary.

I find it uncomfortable to dodge that question too but the best way I've found is to decline politely and ask for a "market offer". If they know you have other offers they'll usually make it competitive.

Or just lie, what are they going to do, ask for a W2?

Many places do background checks which can include a financial/credit check and depending on the depth or association to government security, they may find out.

Or how about "I'm happy to provide that information for reference and background checks and such once we've reached an agreement here."

I never understood the 'don't give a number first' law from all these blogs. If I know the upper bound of my potential salary, why wouldn't I throw out that number (or a bit above) and try to stick to it? What's the negative here? I think it'd be a lot harder if they lowballed you then you come off as somewhat unreasonable by throwing out a much higher number.

You might be mistaken and throw out a number well below the lower bound starting offer the company was planning to make.

That still leaves both parties feeling happy, if a bit perplexed though.

I don't know if I agree with all of this. I'm pretty sure Google, Amazon, etc. have VERY stringent requirements on the hiring process for (at least most) new software engineers. At my own company, there are processes for internal and external applicants, and I personally can vouch that I, the technical interviewer, and the directors do actually look at applicants' resumes.

That doesn't mean I disagree with the premise of the article: candidates should definitely view the negotiations process as a two-way street. But to really have a level playing field and skip most of the "process", as the author suggests, you need to have demonstrable value to the hiring manager at whatever place you're interviewing at. Sometimes that can be hard to demonstrate if you don't have a working relationship with someone inside the company that's interviewing you. Hence the need for some of these processes and resume reviews.

There hiring processes for larger tech companies are geared towards knowledge/skill/aptitude. Salary negotiation is often completely isolated at that level. You have to be able to do the job, but salary negotiation can mean up to a 25% or more difference in pay/benefits/vacation etc.

More specifically the big companies have salary bands for each level, and you can look up the max for each band on sites like levels.fyi

I think a lot of that out of process, meaningful negotiation at large companies happens in the form of acquisitions. If you're very senior, it's much better to sell a company to Google than go there for a regular job.

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