It made me think I was doing something wrong but then the more I thought about it, maybe I just don't need more than those 4hrs of sleep when I'm fasting.
There's a phase, but it passes. It's fairly well known that operating in fat-burning mode puts one in a different head space. It's one of the features commonly touted by advocates of the ketogenic diet, which experientially is very similar. There's a mental alertness and clarity, in my experience it's accompanied by elevated energy levels as well.
It seems to me that it arguably benefits the species to fire on all cylinders in periods of scarcity, as it improves chances of locating food before starvation. In periods of plenty, there's no urgent need, so a more conservative baseline mode of operating is advantageous as it saves fuel as fat for the scarcity periods. Humans didn't evolve with grocery stores and refrigeration, scarcity was a regular and mortal issue, our bodies evolved to address it.
Whenever I fast it feels like I'm on a sustained upper of sorts, once the hunger phase passes. It's kind of like being permanently wired, keyed up, sometimes a little over eager. And yeah it can interfere with going to sleep, similar to drinking coffee late in the day. It's not a problem in my experience if the day is spent being physically active though. Which I think makes perfect sense if we accept that this is an evolutionary trait improving odds of finding/killing a meal. We're supposed to be actively locating next meals when awake in this mode, not sedentary.
I've found it to be a valuable life hack and would argue everyone should at least be familiar with the experience enough to know the initial hunger phase is short-lived and what follows afterwards isn't unpleasant at all, and actually advantageous in some aspects. There are many activities where not having to bother with food/cooking/eating for a few days is game-changing, this combined with elevated energy levels and alertness as well? It's like magic. I never take food on day hikes anymore for instance. Instead I don't eat for the 24-hours prior and just bring water. I'm well clear of the hangry phase, and feel like running the entire thing (and if I'm alone, often do), it's unreal. There's plenty of fat on my person to last weeks of fasting.
I was about to add that I've never tried fasting, but I just realised that a lot of people do this "intermittent fasting" stuff where you don't eat for sixteen hours. I normally eat dinner at 5:30 pm and breakfast around 9 am, so I guess I'm almost there? I've never noticed any real benefits though.
When I fast I'm fucking hungry, and that doesn't go away, though it becomes a bit more manageable; the intensity of the hunger waxes and wanes.
>It's fairly well known that operating in fat-burning mode puts one in a different head space... There's a mental alertness and clarity, in my experience it's accompanied by elevated energy levels as well
Definitely never experienced anything like this. Quite the opposite really.
Though I do enjoy the sheer uncomfortableness I feel when fasting in a weird sort of way, almost like feeling it makes the feed state feel so much better.
Maybe when people who are naturally aloof and easy-going are fasting, they get alertness and clarity. I'm already a somewhat aggressive person maybe it pushes me a bit too far.
My coworker and I are very good friends. When went on a restrictive diet for a month, we both were hangry all the time and eventually she stop talking to me (even though I'm her boss). When we look back at that month, we can laugh, but at the time we had no idea we acting like that. A third coworker just rolled her eyes at us because she knew what was going on.
Maybe there's a significant diet/lifestyle component? For example I don't derive much of my happiness from the food I eat when not fasting. I have known multiple people over the years who eat almost exclusively comfort foods and it's the only thing keeping them out of depression. They would probably be very agitated by a multi-day fast.
My diet is pretty restricted in general, there's not a whole lot missing after the transition into fasting in terms of my daily life experiences and rewards. It's mostly a small burden has been removed.
I wonder if that is what happens to cause wakefulness?
Has anyone here tried 2 full weeks of water fasting? Any extra precautions to take?
How do people make it past this?
If everybody around you feels as miserable, but they are not worried, it's way reassuring :) Bonus if you are in an isolated place making temptations hard.
Another thing is that you should avoid hard things in your first fast, such as working, reading complex material, filling administrative papers, etc. Take the time to rest, watch movies, listen to music, etc. The first two fasts I kept my job, and I didn't benefit as much as the next where I decided to take it easy.
Surprisingly, walking 2 to 3h a day helps a lot to feel less shitty, although you should not do it alone the first time you fast.
Once you are used to it, it does not necessarily because less shitty the next time. But you know what's up, and so it's easier.
One thing though, is that fat people and people with bad food habits will have a harder time.
When you fast, your ghrelin levels peak in the first 24 hours, but after that, they steadily decline. A lot of people don't even feel hungry anymore after about day three.
I have done 3-4 days water fast a few times out of curiosity. In my case, the hunger cravings diminshed after 48 hours or so.
However, I've never feel better, worse, or different from the experience. No extra energy, no extra ability to focus, no changes in sleep, no excessive fatigue, etc. Other than the hunger, I felt normal.
I am convinced that fasting is a fad and may have placebo effect if you think it will.
Addition: I have used a 48-72 hour fast as a precursor to a longer-term low carb/keto diet (for weight loss). The fast will get the excess sugar out of your system and you'll be able to get into ketosis quickly.
or... different people respond differently to it.
... most of the effects can be verified with blood tests...
If you can't handle a keto diet you might have issues.
I'll crave things like pickle juice. Clearly the body wants its salts. It's amazing how good it is as signaling the things it needs, when it needs them.
My wife will make some really appalling beverage for me, containing pickle juice, apple cider vinegar, lite salt, and I think lemon juice. It terrifies me to think about. On a fast, though? I'll literally drink it by the quart and want more.
Medically one probably ought to get advice prior to trying it.
This is just the latest of many studies that provides clinical evidence for what people have anecdotally reported for millennia: occasional fasting makes people feel healthier and seems to make their bodies work better.
I used to get routine blood work done every 7 days while water fasting, but I don't do it anymore.
The "healing crisis" typically begin around the 12-16 day marks, so just expect them and embrace the healing :)
Are there specific soups typically used? Or just any soup will do?
> Any patient with negligible food intake for more than five days is at risk of developing refeeding problems.
In Jung's book, I think I can remember the 'safe' fasting period was about five days at most, when you go over that you should take precautions.
Do you expect that a longer fasting can bring more rewarda than multiple, shorter fasts?
What healthy changes have been observed? Has your doctor noted changes? Do you couple this with exercise?
It looks like you can lost a fair amount of muscle mass, and that you lose the most muscle mass early, so 1 21 day fast would be better for you than 3 7 day.
I know that they do IF, but do we have examples of bodybuilders that do 3+ day regular fasts? I'm not aware of any. IF can simply be a neat way to calorically reduce, but legitimate multi-day fasting is another beast entirely.
Regarding the fasting time, I think there's a big difference between the IF you are doing and eg the multi-day fasts people here are talking about. They don't sound helpful for strength sports.
Longer fasts are something different entirely. They have their place, but are more of an event that must be planned. Personally, I like things I can do for life and turn into habits. I don't see how I could make 3-7 day fasts a habit.
Oh, and I'm not the person you asked, but my best DL was conventional 525lb weighing 199 :)
I would agree that multi-day fasts would not be good for strength sports. There doesn't seem to be a authoritative source but LeanGains states you won't lose muscle if you're fasting less than 24 hours. (https://leangains.com/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked-major-u...)
Try taking 200mg-400mg of L-theanine with each cup of coffee. It'll temper the anxiety feeling you're having.
That being said you call it a health tool, and then say it produces stress, which has been documented as being extremely detrimental to health. You also mention, being unable to focus, and being wired.
I'm glad it's helped you, but this endorsement makes me question the health benefits more actually, and makes me less interested in trying it.
Now, consider that fasting (and, really, consistent exercise as well) is correlated with high self-control and an internal belief that you're doing this to improve your physical health. The worst kind of Stress is stress from sources you can't control, but you have complete control over what you eat.
The dose makes the poison. Not enough stress has been shown to be extremely detrimental to health too (Fitness training produces stress. Take your pick of studies showing that you should still do it).
1. Accept you will seemingly need less sleep and go to bed later, use any sleepless time in bed as an opportunity to read and meditate.
2. Be extra careful with sleep hygiene.
3. Use hot then ice cold showers before bed, and possibly sleep aids spanning from 1 mg melatonin to 7.5 mg doxylamine (very safe, but gives you a hangover due to long half-life, maybe not so bad if you feel too wired) to benzodiazepines or hypnotics like ambien (shorter half-lifes, more effective, ideally with assistance from a doctor).
Some argue that sleeping less is a good stress during a fast, but I haven't seen any good evidence to support that.
Also important to quit coffee, I find it improves a lot of things (after a week of withdrawal symptoms).
Btw, I don't use coffee as a sleep substitute. I wake up every morning without an alarm. I drink coffee for the taste. I simply love it.
Better mood and feeling more energized through the day. Better vision. The latest is quite strange, but I can really see better, probably a side effect of improved concentration and calmness.
The thing that clicked for me with IF, was instead of thinking about fasting for X hours, I think about having a 9 hour window each day when I can eat. While not perfect, I slide this window around if I have stuff going in the morning or at night.
Whatever hunger I would feel in the mornings stopped pretty quickly. I workout first thing, so I was already doing most of my workouts on an empty stomach. I had figured out awhile ago I had much more energy before that first meal.
The hardest part for me was skipping milk in my coffee in the mornings since that would break my fast. It's still the place I trip up, but if I can go 4/7 mornings that's a win.
As an aside, initially I also used hunger as a mental exercise. I would think that there are people who are truly starving, and I can't go 15 hours without food? Toughen up. I don't really notice hunger much anymore so that exercise didn't last.
I started with the 'skip breakfast' style of fasting, which was good, but then I did my homework on the different 'types':
16:8 16 hours no food: 8 hour 'feeding window' (generally normal dinner, no breakfast, later lunch)
18:6 - this is where I believe most Intermittent fasters go.
20:4 - I've done this a bit, and it works for me, but I can't do it more than once or twice(!) a week.
Do you make any other alterations to your diet?
I wouldn't be surprised if there are other functions and processes in the body benefit (maybe kidneys and the liver benefit from some more 'downtime'). I am not a huge fan of the 'evolution' argument, but I assume our distant ancestors ate meals in somewhat sporadic schedules, so it would kinda make sense that our bodies are tuned to that cadence, as opposed to the constant supply of processed foods that we currently subsist on.