Comment by mmjaa | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mmjaa | Hacker News Reader

Just a bit of anecdotal side-data: I've recently switched to a full electric transportation lifestyle, having replaced my much-loved Vespa with an Unu Motoros electric moped .. and nothing will ever make me go back to a combustion engine ever again.

Electric transportation is just so, so good.

Sure, the Unu is under-powered by comparison with its gas-guzzling ancestors, but this is regulatory not technical (Unu's are soft-limited to 45km/h here in Europe, alas) but electric is really the wave of the future. I get home and back again on my Unu with just as much comfort as I did with the Vespa - only I'm completely silent, and not woofing fumes at every stop. Plus, its incredibly cheap to charge the batteries.

I think, once a few more people experience life on electric wheels, there is going to be a turning point where the archaic gas-guzzlers rapidly get replaced with green alternatives. We already see this here in middle-Europe (Vienna) - electric vehicles are becoming more and more common, and in a very eco-/green- centric market such as Vienna, not a week goes by without seeing more and more of these vehicles on the road.

If anyone is on the fence about it, consider switching. It may not quite have the revs and torque of the gas-guzzlers, but the benefits - clean and efficient travel - are worth the effort by far.

I'll ride my Unu another year or two, and then upgrade to something with a bit more speed, maybe a Čezeta if I can get one in a year or two. Electric is just so much fun, even at the lower-grade Unu level .. and even though it was cheaper to go from gas-Vespa to Unu, I still get a bump on the lifestyle credentials. My friends and family are envious of the electric aspect, even though the thing is nowhere near as performant as the old Vespa GTS was. (Yes, I know Vespa have an electric variant now too - I'm gonna upgrade to Čezeta though .. nicer style!)

I see electric vs gas in the same way as fast food versus organic.

A person working a low wage job, working 12 or 16 hour days burned-out may pop into a fast food restaurant for a quick burger. An executive with time to spare and money to burn may have time to cook their own meal with high quality ingredients.

It's the same for electric vehicles. You save on costs since it is cheaper to "fuel" it but the initial cost and the lack of charging stations is a problem right now. If you have the money and the resources it's great but right now not everyone has that ability.

I can certainly see it eventually that vehicles will be all be electric. But for now it's too expensive for working poor or even middle class, at least in my region. So for now it's fast food.

You're incorrect, you should consider all forms of electric transport - seems you're just referring to car ownership. If you're talking about scooters, bikes, mopeds, skateboards - those are all coming in at an affordable level and comparable to someone who needs a beater to get around town.

Poor people generally can't afford to live within bike or moped or good transit distance to work.

A schoolteacher living in North Bend isn't going to moped 30 miles down a freeway to get to her workplace in Seattle.

But they can certainly hop on an electric bus (as some MetroKC buses are now)

And only have a 2 hour one-way commute!

As opposed to a 40 minute drive. It's truly a wonder that poor Americans aren't falling over head-over-heels to get on the non-automobile commute bandwagon. The bandwagon that either requires tripling their commute time, or living somewhere they can't afford.

In next week's discussion of the subject, we will look at the trade-offs of suggesting that the peasantry, when they lack bread, should turn to eating cake.

You can get a decent ebike for $500. You can get a still-good Nissan Leaf used for under $10k. These are within the grasp of a lot of folks.

Yeah but you can get a still-good small gasoline-powered car for a small fraction of that, and it will have 3-4 times the range of the Leaf and refuel time of 5 minutes at the nearest gas pump.

Automobile wise we have entered a phase where EVs easily can be used as a second vehicle for those who can charge at home or have really convenient charging opportunities. I still think Tesla has the only full replacement since they have both the range and charging network to back it; disclaimer is that I own a TM3. Personal view, premium EVs autos must be three hundred miles plus, all others two hundred plus.

Motorcycle wise, if you want to see the limitations its all very evident on this stage. Cars can pack on the weight and hide it well but the same cannot be said for motorcycles. I don't know of any brand using a liquid cooled battery pack which means longevity of current offerings is questionable.

EV cars are more than capable of holding their own against petrol cars but upfront cost, charging opportunities, and range in cold weather, are still issues for many buyers. EV motorcycles and scooters are still fair weather affairs with inherent limitations of air cooled pack.

I think you have primary and secondary confused? Primary car has long connoted "daily commuter" and secondary vehicle "extended range/vacation/backup/family needs". EV's are doing great in primary "daily commuter" needs, but yes, some of the secondary car concerns are where a lot of people are held up (especially one car households where primary car also has to account for all secondary needs).

You are just confusing your primary/secondary role categories with their first/second car purchase categories. As you even said yourself, the first car for a household usually addresses all needs, not just primary needs.

Just to add to your anecdotal evidence. I'm driving a Renault Zoé here in London.

It's a humble car in pretty much every regard, but the torque is just incredible. It wizzes and leaves any petrol/ sport car behind at the red light.

Not that's of any uses but it's always fun.

Its a real paradigm shift to go from internal combustion to electric. There really isn't any comparison - electric is a better user experience, all the way. If only my Unu didn't have the soft-limit though, lol ..

That's too slow. I need something that can accelerate up to 70kph. I don't know what Gogoro are doing I've tried one in Taipei and I want one now, but I cannot buy it in Europe.

I've got a surron electric bike which does 45mph or about 70kph on flat ground. It's a bike that can be registered as a moped (with DOT lights added, some places option them already for this) or used as an electric bicycle (it can be optioned with an janky crankset, but it's more for appearances than pedaling).

It's a lot of fun, I ride it more than my cbr, but it does blur the lines of bike and motorcycle which can be tricky.

I'm ready to give away a really solid chunk of cash if Shenzhen will let me drive a moped here again (mopeds and motorcycles are officially banned in Shenzhen.)

People buy Nius here and there, and have them confiscated regularly every few months. Niu is not ok for me, not as comfy as maxi scooters, nor fast as 150cc.

If I will commit to buying a proper electric moped, I would like not to have it being seized every few months.

Interesting. eBikes are ok?

ebikes are, but the edge in between powerful ebike and a moped does not seem to clear to anybody here, police included.

Adding to the confusion, mopeds from neighbouring municipalities, may or may not be let into some areas of "peripheral districts" depending on legal technicalities. You may have your moped impounded in Baoan centre, but can drive safely in Baoan if you have moped numberplate from a neighbouring rural locality, and do not stick into "centre."

In practice, police impounds a moped first, and thinks later

It’s not that electric vehicles are green, it’s just that they allow your ultimate power source to be easily swapped with something green. At least in the US, the majority of electricity is generated from fossils fuels, so I think it’s a little disingenuous to say that EV is green (by default).

Nobody could ever argue that the US is green.

But many European countries have wind farms, and decent solar. Europe is way greener, energy-wise, than the US - still has a long way to go, sure, but for sure electric vehicles stand a much better change of a green-source advantage in most of Europe over pretty much anywhere at all in the US.

EV's are still greener even if the battery is charged from a coal fired power station.

Great to hear your experiences!

Looked into the Unu for my father, but as he is nearing retirement, the old petrol scooter will probably be good for another two or three years.

I for myself would love something like a 125ccm scooter with electric engine. Do you know if there is something like that on the market?

Why would one downvote this? I asked for advice and as OP seems to be informed I thought this was a good place to ask...

Czeta! :)

https://cezeta.com

They look great!

Somehow like the Jetsons, where everything was modern but with a view on how people at that time thought "modern" would look like.

One could argue about the price, but around 15k Euro isn't too expensive after all.

having replaced my much-loved Vespa with an Unu Motoros electric moped

These only appear to be available in Germany, it seems: https://unumotors.com/en/product.

I wonder what the U.S. equivalent is.

I'm curious why they're described as "mopeds" when no pedals are visible. Maybe they pop out or something but with that seating position, they can't be useful for any serious transportation. I'd call it an electric scooter or step-through e-bike. The equivalent would just be an e-bike.

The language varies internationally. In the UK I would call a small step through scooter a moped. We don't really have the pedalled equivalent. I only know this because i read this http://www.mopedtrip.com/more/worldrecord.html

$87.00/mo or $2045.00 one time payment. That's really nice although as people said it is a little low on the top speed if you need to take it on any faster roadways / highways.

For city driving it seems absolutely perfect in terms of performance, convenience, and most importantly: price.

Looks really slick as well. I'm loving the different color options. Too bad you can only pick one stock ;P

Honestly a big feature is the removable battery too. People who live in cities can't just plug in their car/scooter when they get home because they don't have garages. Being able to pull the battery pack out and charge it in your apartment radically changes the logistics of charging for the better.

> much-loved Vespa with an Unu Motoros electric moped

Your neighbours love you now.

They really didn't mind the Vespa, but now they really love the Unu - pretty much everyone who notices its an electric moped wants to know more, take it for a ride, and comes away impressed.

Its definitely the case that the torque and power aren't there - yet - but its also true that you can feel the machine wants to do more when the soft-limits kick in.

At least in Denmark, I really hate the petrol mopeds.

For some reason I don't understand, they're allowed to use most bike paths. That means they overtake the bicycles (and I don't like being overtaken with little clearance by larger, heavier vehicles) and leave a trail of fumes all along the cycle path. They're naturally going to be first in line at the traffic lights, spewing more fumes for the cyclists behind them.

On my commute, I'll change my route if there's a moped ahead.

(Cars are bad too, but they're not in my face, and seem to have much better emissions controls.)

At least in Paris, I'm being slowly killed by petrol mopeds.

Literally: https://www.airparif.asso.fr/actualite/detail/id/255

Electric mopeds/bikes aren’t that great either, at least for pedestrians. I’ve almost been creamed a few times by one silently coming up in me in Beijing. They should at least hum or something. And they definitely shouldn’t be on the side walk doing 30km/h.

They shouldn't be on the sidewalk period... Neither should bikes.

But this is China we are talking about so....

How far is your commute?

14 km's daily, so 28km's total every day. The Unu has two batteries - I can get into work and back on a single battery, so without charging I can get to work and back twice. With the dual-batteries, it means I charge one of them every night .. not too un-friendly.

And, being the battery removable, you could always take it to the office and chargit there O:) ;)

I'm checing a Torrot Muvi now, which is around 3K€...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com