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Comment by magduf | Hacker News Reader

>Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here.

Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move?

And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices. The US is definitely not. Why would you leave there to come here? That's like me leaving the US and moving to El Salvador, thinking it'll somehow be nicer. (This is a valid comparison: compare the murder rates of Sweden vs. US to US vs. El Salvador.)

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>Sorry if this sounds rude

It does, a little bit, but that's ok.

No, it wasn't a surprise that it wasn't as bike friendly as Sweden. My comment was I was shocked at how extremely hostile Florida in particular was. I hadn't been to Florida prior to moving here. I committed to move away from Sweden because my wife couldn't stand it any more, the social aspects of Sweden are not all that peachy. It's really hard to break through the social barriers and make friends there. I had visited other parts of the US which I really did like, but we ended up here for work. We'll spend a few years here and then leave for some greener grass.

Having gone on some road trips my observation is it varies a lot by state. Tennessee is one of my favorites down south and D.C metro area is quite nice if you avoid the city center.

Can you elaborate on what you mean about the social aspects of Sweden not being peachy? Many people in the US describe Sweden as a utopia for Americans looking for a new foreign country to call home... any input on that sentiment would be appreciated.

You do not talk to others in public. You do not meet new people at the gym, at bars, at anywhere. If you are lucky you work in a small startup-office where employees go drink after work on fridays and where you can get to know them.

American tourists can be heard over all other sound in the metro- and trainstations in Stockholm because the natural level of noise-making is so different.

To be fair I think it is worse these days than it could be. Over the last 50 years or so Sweden developed a form of egalitarian individualism, which has made social interaction a bit peculiar. But today there is rising inequality which has turned some of that individualism into egoism. At the same time there are a lot of people moving in or out of cities, breaking up friend groups and leaving small towns to their faith. Swedes do quite well socially when it comes to things like non profit clubs. Now everyone is trying to be "international" which most Swedes aren't good at as they are far too concerned about what other people think.

How do people meet other people to date then?

I don't actually know, but I'm going to hazard a guess that it's the same as in the US: dating apps. How else could you possibly meet people to date? This isn't a joke question, because I honestly have no idea.

The standard ways of meeting partners, according to surveys, have been: school, work, church, friends, family, bars, online. School isn't possible if you're not a student any more (i.e., most everyone over 25), work is generally frowned upon and pretty limited unless your workplace has a lot of turnover (which is bad for other reasons!), church isn't useful if you're not religious (as is the case for Sweden I'm sure), friends and family have limited social circles of singles, and bars are a great place to meet alcoholics. The surveys I've read for dating in America have shown that all these methods (except maybe school) have been declining for a long time, while online has become the #1 method.

My wife is American, she came to study in Sweden, I'm a native. She lived in Sweden for 7 years and was struggling to learn the language, people are very insistent on speaking English if they hear that's your native language. That's nice and all, but it makes it hard to fully become part of society. The biggest issue is the individualism bordering on egotism, people just don't want to deal with strangers.

Being half-Spanish I often compare to that culture. Over there you'll see kids, teenagers, adults and old people hanging out in bars together at 1am on the weekends. Over in Sweden you're supposed to stay locked up in your apartment after 6pm once you're past your 70s.

If you're seriously considering moving away from the US I'd suggest looking at Norway, which seems like a much friendlier place to me.

>Tennessee is one of my favorites down south and D.C metro area is quite nice if you avoid the city center.

Tennessee is not at all bike-friendly, and pay there is generally very low.

What's wrong with the city center in DC? The city center is mostly very gentrified and rather expensive, particularly on the west side. Stay away from the southeast part at night though, but most other parts are pretty good.

>I committed to move away from Sweden because my wife couldn't stand it any more, the social aspects of Sweden are not all that peachy.

Are you and your wife native Swedes? I could see non-natives complaining about not fitting into a place like that, but if you grew up there it should be different.

Did you think about moving to other European countries? If you're looking for something friendlier than Sweden but still liveable and bikeable and pedestrian-friendly and with a social safety net and low crime, there's lots of options in the rest of Europe. Why would you want to move instead to a country where there's more guns than people and you have to worry about being killed either by criminals or in a car wreck?

Ex-Floridian here. I spent my formative years there. No amount of research could have prepared you for our hostility towards bikers. In my youth we'd actively try to mess with (shout at, drive obnoxiously close to, etc..) bicyclers for having the arrogance to (a) exist, and (b) use our roads.

If we saw a biker out and about, it was pretty much guaranteed that they'd get a finger as I rocketed by in my car. This was just a thing that everyone did. I don't know why we were so self-righteous and angry about road usage.

As what is surely punishment for my past sins, I now commute via bicycle every day now. Even in a 'bike friendly' city like Seattle, I still get cars that play the "I'm gunna clip you!" scare game that I used to do to others as a teenager. Young me was a huge moron.

I think people keep 2 compartments in brain and never let them interact. E.g. when it comes to salaries it goes like why the hell European/ canadian companies do not pay like US companies. And when it comes to personal life or health they go like why is US so hostile for health care, vacations.

While your first paragraph is apposite to the post:

> Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move?

surely the proper answer to:

> And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices. The US is definitely not. Why would you leave there to come here?

is "none of your business", and the answer to:

> That's like me leaving the US and moving to El Salvador, thinking it'll somehow be nicer.

is that the grandparent didn't say he or she expected the US to be nicer than Sweden, only implied an expectation that it would be less cyclist-hostile than it (the US) actually is.

The US dwarfs Sweden in size and cultural diversity. There are many places to live in the US that are as nice or nicer than Sweden. There are many places that are not.

There is no place in the US that beats Sweden on metrics like quality of life and healthcare affordability. These things are nationally driven, and there are no US states with socialized healthcare.

Life quality for none-Swedes is anecdotally not that great, at least not according to the Americans I got to know in Sweden.

Yes, the fact you won't be financially ruined by health issues is nice. The wait times and quality of care in Sweden left some to be desired.

IMO most people would not consider healthcare affordability as a factor in where they want to live, or even a major factor in their quality of life. NYC (as one example) is famously expensive across the board for all types of insurance, healthcare, housing, food, etc. but still has hordes of people who want to live there.

As an aside - New York State did launch a universal healthcare program recently, and I believe Colorado has something in the works on that front too.

New York City recently launched a health insurance program that seeks to cover everyone in the city and offers low-cost options. It's not, however, a single-payer program. [0]

New York State does not have any statewide health insurance program yet, universal or otherwise. However, the New York Health Act (which would create a statewide single-payer insurance program) has passed the State Assembly four years in a row and stands a good chance of finally passing the Senate this year as well. [1]

[0] https://cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/health-care/bill-... [1] https://www.nyhcampaign.org/

Thanks for the clarification - I live here but haven't been keeping up with it recently.

> there are no US states with socialized healthcare.

So, not MA then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_refo...

Or Vermont, temporarily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform

Sweden probably has a slightly undeserved reputation in this area. These days mainly the financing is socialized, which is still something. The services themselves are privatized. So the quality can vary wildly depending on location and provider. Or even almost randomly. It is more similar to a capitalist system in that regard. I think maybe Norway or Finland might be better examples of countries offering egalitarian service today.

I've heard this pretty often, and intuitively it sounds like it might be true. However, do you have any references about that?

Are you asking for a reference that the USA has more diverse demographics than Sweden? That's gonna be a lmgtfy.

The US is a huge country and has a broad range of pedestrian/cycle-friendly infrastructure — Florida in particular is among the worst.

I think you're really whitewashing things. A better description would be that the US is a huge country with a few, select metro areas that are pedestrian/cycle-friendly (and even then, only in certain parts), while the vast majority of the country is very unfriendly to them.

I never claimed the majority of the US was great for bicycling; just that Florida was exceptionally bad. I think maybe you read more into that statement than was actually present. (I think I understand the confusion — I intended to say there was a broad range of infrastructure friendliness.)

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