I'm always amazed how startups like this where R&D practically cost nothing are not profitable yet after years in the market and thousands of customers. C'mon guys 99% of the work is already done by antirez and the open source community.
I'm always amazed how startups like this where R&D practically cost nothing are not profitable yet after years in the market and thousands of customers. C'mon guys 99% of the work is already done by antirez and the open source community.
Btw the Redis Labs development team at this point is quite large, because Redis open source is the core, but the company produces a number of things in order to provide a good managed Redis experience, all the additional features and modules, and so forth. But even so, I think it is accurate to say that most money in most companies of this kind will go to orchestrate the company at a different level, not just R&D.
I am really interested to hear how you would square this against, say, Bssecamp's modus operandi.
How would you define 'enough'?
And it's not about greed really - you actually have an obligation to shareholders to maximise profit.
That's just formalized greed.
A convenient myth common in the UK and US. There are no laws that require shareholders to be put first.
How many directors have been prosecuted for not maximising profit?
If people are serious about testing this premise, why not be upfront with the investors and actually tell them that "maximizing profit is not one of our (primary) goals"?
Why not be upfront with investors and tell them keeping the company viable, developing new products, finding better processes, treating staff acceptably, or maintaining the environment are not primary goals?
So why fixate on profit or shareholder value? Once you act as though it is a prime directive, you necessarily relegate the others. There are going to be a lot of times in the life of a company where growth, longevity, research or a dozen other things should take priority for a time.
By not doing so, and continuing to push the continually increasing dividend, you weaken the company. Weaker and ripe for takeover, or lacking the next generation of products that might give 20 more years of profit. Maybe by showing so much greed in your pricing that your customers give up and go elsewhere.
A long lived, vibrant, profitable company is more than just a growing dividend and share price, it's a constant balancing act of all of the above. Profit is indirectly maximised as a result of that balance.
I found a long, but very interesting discussion of the topic: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/8146/are-u-s-co...
One part is especially worth quoting, from John Kay (a British economist and commentator):
"...and the more shareholder value became a guide to action, the worse the outcome. On the board of the Halifax Building Society, I voted in 1995 for its conversion to a “plc”. We would allow the company to pursue the goal of maximising its value untrammelled by outmoded concepts of mutuality: in barely a decade, almost every last penny of that value was destroyed."
Longevity would have been a better priority in that moment, no?
Not an obligation, but an incentive, as preached by Michael C. Jensen and William H. Meckling in their widely-cited 1976 paper: Theory of the Firm: Managerial Behavior, Agency Costs and Ownership Structure, and in a follow-up HBR article.
In some cases value can be very different than profit, depending on your investors :
- They may want your project to have a positive impact on the local community
- They might only want to have business that are sustainable
- Maybe they care a lot about men/women equality
- Maybe they want to generate recurring revenues
- Or they are looking for short term sale
The question is: are those objectives aligned with what you want to do, or not. Most issues arise when there is a delta there.
Reality is more nuanced. You don't, for example, really know how much profit you'll make from taking more or less investment. It comes down to strategic foresight and belief.. IE not the most reliable guess. IE, a lot depends on the personality and goals of the CEO.
In practical terms, the macro amount of money investors are trying to put in can play a much bigger role than comparing unknown futures. If investors are having trouble investing all the money they want to, the proposition gets more pleasant for the recipient. Less equity, and (more importantly irl, if not formally financial logic) better terms, less loss of control, more choice of investors.
The "fiduciary duty" that obligates companies to make money is also over somewhat academic. IRL, this doesn't really cover strategic decisions. It covers stealing, nepotism, bed-feathering and other blatant shareholder abuse. You could never prosecute a CEO for passing on investment irl.
TLDR: academics formalize these decisions in a clean, whiteboard model of the world. In the whiteboard rule, where the complexity of reality doesn't exist, choices don't really exist either. The CEO just evaluates the npv of taking investment, providing free lunch or launching a new product and the decision is made.
Basecamp could have been slack, but slack ate their cake.
They have successfully resisted the pressure to continually expand.
The problem is that, for a lot of companies, the endgame is continued midsize existence; it’s death when you stop getting new customers and old ones phase out.
The low marginal cost of software doesn’t guarantee winner-take-all markets by any stretch, but it does apply pressure in that direction.
So you don't want to miss out on the opportunity to be the big fish in your pond (you may be unable to keep making money in the long term if you aren't the market leader), but you don't want to grow your costs so fast that you can never catch up.
That's the balancing act being played. And your early-stage investors who have lots of control will push hard to play it aggressively in later stages, because they want to make huge returns. And when there are people out there willing to give you tens of millions of dollars and by extension several years more guaranteed life of your company without you having to do the hard work to hammer out actual profit anytime soon, it's going to be hard if not impossible to turn down.
It's not really possible, they are just playing the startup game. Honest non Patreon sounding justifications are pretty hard to come up with at this point.
It’s never just the product, no matter how much we builder types might like.
(No idea whether 60M is the right number for the rest though.)
Redis Labs employs antirez and therefore sponsor the open source work on redis. At least a part of this VC money is going towards making a great open source redis. As a user, that makes me happy.
https://redislabs.com/team_post_type/salvatore-sanfilippo-le...
That's the problem. Enterprising open-source stuff is really hard. Either you're selling support for already-open-source stuff, or you're selling an enterprise variant with extra goodies and throwing a support plan on top of that.
S&M is a helluva drug. Notice something common about the "Other SG&A" in all of these?
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/mdb/financials
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/cldr/financials
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/rht/financials
At the end of the day, DCF is really what matters and DCF != profit
Yes, but maybe he's not a business man or is not in his interest to pursue the road of something like redis labs.