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Comment by ardit33 | Hacker News Reader

No New Yorker was happy about the subsidies, especially since it was x4 the amount of the one Amazon got in D.C. Subway is running at full capacity, and real estate prices are already high.

It was seen as a bad deal, and new yorkers just don't have a positive view of amazon. When your restaurant is already almost at full capacity, there is no need to lose money on a groupon campaign.

I don't think anybody would have complained if these subsidies were done somewhere upstate, where the jobs are truly needed.

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Per this poll from 2 days ago, 69% of the public approves of HQ2 coming to NY, with support across all demographic groups.

https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp....

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Other key findings from the poll include:

    85% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will create good jobs for New Yorkers and Queens residents
    77% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will improve the economy of New York City
    70% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will raise New York City property values
    68% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will help make New York City an East Coast tech hub
    58% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will raise the tax revenues New York needs for education, transportation, and other vital services
    55% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will create new opportunities for local and small businesses

That's right.... nobody is denying that a large company creating jobs, is a bad thing. People are upset for the large subsidies.

the "Do you believe NYC should give 3B+ subsidies to Amazon"

Or, "Do you believe NYC giving 4 times the subsidies to Amazon, compared to D.C., is a good deal?.?

are missing. Put them into the questionnaire, and see how the response rates change.

I would say, of people I've met that voice reluctance over the deal, all of them have been over the issues you mentioned, except the subsidies (i.e. gentrification, housing affordability, oversubscription of public services). I haven't spoken to anyone in person who said anything negative about the subsidies.

And indeed, the full survey results (linked on the bottom of https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp...) show that once they were asked about subsidies, most respondents (and 74% of those with an opinion on the subject) thought they were too high.

(That's without being prompted with the specific $ amount of the subsidies, as far as I can see. If they had mentioned the $4 billion figure, the response might have been even more overwhelming.)

Cherry picking.

Also from the poll:

a majority of New York registered voters also see it as likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will increase the cost of housing in New York City and complicate public transit and transportation, among other issues.

This seems to support the parent’s general claim about the subway etc.

Did the poll ask if New Yorkers were happy with the subsidies?

The poll question: Do you approve or disapprove of Amazon locating one of its new headquarters in Long Island City in Queens? is at least vastly incomplete.

I don’t know the specifics, but it seems fair to me the question should be something more like: do you approve or disapprove of the city spending $x of taxpayers money on a deal to bring Amazon to NYC?

I would like to remind readers that Amazon funded this poll. Take from that what you will.

This is a better one, and even includes questions on how people feel about subsidies:

https://poll.qu.edu/new-york-city/release-detail?ReleaseID=2...

Weren't most of the subsidies through the already existing "Excelsior program"?

https://esd.ny.gov/sites/default/files/Excelsior_Overview_20...

I'm just confused about what people want. The program was long derided for creating too few jobs:

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hu...

Now that it's Amazon, it's creating too many jobs and (therefore) costing too much money? I don't support tax subsidies in general, but the program was already signed into law, you can't just change the rules that you set yourself just because you realize in hindsight it's a bad deal. Honestly, the people of NYS elected Cuomo twice, they should have to live with the consequences.

Well, Amazon has nothing to do with the city neglect of subway and other public transportation development. See an examples of Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing (all of them are more populous than NYC), where they build new stations, new roads for public transit, optimize old ones, etc. It is always sad to see the city of planetary importance struggling to maintain itself.

Part of it is New York's system is much older than the rest of your examples, Tokyo didn't really expand beyond a single tunnel till 50s-60s, Beijing opened in the 60s and Shanghai only started construction in the mid 80s. Then on top of that the city of New York isn't actually in charge fully so (like just happened) if they try to do something disruptive but critical the governor can come and derail the whole plan. I don't mean to say it excuses the mismanagement but it does explain a lot of the problems.

Also it's not like they're not building new stuff in 2017 the second avenue subway opened with 3 new stations.

When do you think they can fix the subway? It has been neglected for decades. It handles about 5.5 million people a day. An extra 25,000 people can’t be accommodated?

Everytime I hear someone complain about this I wonder if they consider how many cars will not be needed during rush hour because Amazon chose NYC.

Hey, what do you think about the massive spending plan the Democrats are working on to solve climate change?

Do people even try to connect the dots?

Newark to Long Island City is about 15 miles. Plenty of affordable real estate there. With a little urban planning and better mass transit, NYC could handle 10 Amazons.

Having more people in NYC is great for climate change, because the urban environment is a lot less carbon intensive. In what other city could Amazon locate where fewer net cars would be added to the roads?

I'm not a new yorker. But I'm a 100% a fan of AOC and fully agree that Amazon has no business ruining NYC and causing gentrification to LIC. I can't help but feel for the families, businesses and communities this will disrupt.

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