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Comment by mrob | Hacker News Reader

The strongest evidence for trackpads being objectively inferior to mice is the lack of pro-level FPS players using them.

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That's really just evidence that they are inferior for competitive FPS play. You could equally say that the strongest evidence for mice being objectively inferior to graphics tablets is the lack of pro artists using them for drawing.

I think FPSs are a good proxy for mouse usage in general, because they require a balance of speed and accuracy. RTSs are more demanding of speed (higher actions per second), and drawing programs are more demanding of accuracy (which as you point out makes graphics tablets better here), but FPSs need a wide variety of mouse techniques. There is no "competitive office suite operation" so competitive FPS play is the most demanding test of this kind of pointer control.

Well, you are correct on both counts.

Your core point is interesting, and I'd have to agree (in the sense that the nature of the task needs to be considered for the comparison to be meaningful).

However, the main reason why artists use pads for drawing is purely for the pressure sensitivity, which means we are comparing apples and oranges. As in, 3 axis controllers vs 2 axis. Without that difference, the counterexample would be less striking, and meaningful and objective comparisons can be made. E.g. between mice, joysticks, or handheld thumbpad sticks. For activities which require both rapid movements and accuracy (which could be aiming in an fps or clicking an icon), mice do tend to be objectively superior, on average. I say / concede this as a full time trackball user (due to ergonomic reasons).

My main point being that some things are generalisable, and the no free lunch theorem doesn't mean that each controller is meaningfully best at some niche.

I don't think pressure sensitivity is the main reason for using a graphics tablet, although it is a valuable feature. Try signing your name, writing the alphabet or drawing a circle with a mouse - even without pressure sensitivity it is much easier and more precise to use a pen. Handwriting input doesn't really need pressure sensitivity but is mostly only useful with a pen rather than a mouse.

Most people prefer being able to write directly on the screen with a Cintiq or Surface but separate graphics tablets are still popular. A few people learn to draw quite well with a mouse but for most people using a pen works better.

I'm not sure I'd agree as to what is the main feature there; certainly most people prefer writing using something resembling a pen / pencil, but I'd argue that is mostly to do with the carry over from a previously learned skill (which is nontrivial and schools spend years drilling into us as kids). Re: pressure, I coincidentally I recently spent a fair bit of time researching graphics tablets for art purposes, and generally the main point every professional artist agreed on was "don't waste your money on a tablet that doesn't have pressure sensitivity, you need it". It tends to also also correctly simulate what they are already used to, which is the previous point.

The main thing though is that as much as you are probably irked by people generalising overly much, I'm similarly irked when people go the opposite direction and generalise too little. It tends to come up on many levels, a silly example being /r/fitness's popular opinion about pushups which goes along the lines of "doing a lot of pushups won't make you generally stronger in the least, it just makes you able to do more pushups", which I'd argue is a needless.

Again, I think you have an interesting point which can be considered further. E.g, why are joysticks and yokes more popular (or thought to be superior) for the controls of real planes or sims?. I suspect the fine control, and being able to separate the axes / operate them more independently likely play a big role. Hence, it's likely down to the task, or rather, groupings of similar tasks.

I'm no artist but I prefer a pen over a mouse for drawing / writing. Pressure sensitivity is great but I'd still take a pen without over a mouse for drawing and I suspect most artists would agree. Yes you want pressure sensitivity but no that's not the only reason to prefer a pen.

Familiarity may be a factor in using pens but it's a general human trait that a precision grip https://psychologydictionary.org/precision-grip/ works better for certain types of fine detail tasks. It's not just a matter of familiarity with non digital pens.

I actually came to comment on this matter. Anecdotal evidence of several people I know is that playing FPS games with trackpad (pretty much of a torture) improves touchpad intuitive usage to an extent where they don't notice any discomfort with it in daily life.

Perhaps, hand-eye coordianation training that happens in FPS shooters translates to better touchpad usage in normal cases.

(Still, I'm told that trying to competitively play FPS games with it just sucks).

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