Ask HN: Does anybody else get bad carpal tunnel/RSI? Any tips?
I have been getting very painful and numbing carpal tunnel in my right hand. Struggling to type this atm.
Anybody else? Any tips?
Anybody else? Any tips?
Second: get a good keyboard. The Kinesis is a good first step. You may find that curved keyboards like the Microsoft Natural don't work for you--when I tried one, it required me to stretch my fingers further, which hurt more.
Third: find a doctor. (Actually, call the doctor first; but you should be helping yourself while waiting for the appointment.) If you're in the Seattle area, I can recommend Dr. William Ericson [1]. He did my surgery (years ago, before he moved to Seattle). Some time back, he figured out that a lot of the patients he was seeing, who weren't responding to carpal tunnel treatment, had something in common: extra ligaments near the elbow that pinch the nerves that go through the carpal tunnel when you turn your hands face-down. He can cut those ligaments--they're totally unnecessary; 75% of the population doesn't have them--and the problem goes away. Worked for me--very minor surgery; I was conscious for the whole thing.
For me, my #3 was "Code only, exclusively, and forever on a Kinesis Ergo or Maltron Keyboard, and never, ever, ever, for any reason, use a mouse; only a Logitech Marble Mouse". That might be the right story for you. It might not. My particular problems are with the messed up way I type on a flat (or flat-ish) keyboard, and wrist pronation from bad mouse usage.
Here's the thing: My Symptoms Are Useless To You. As much as this thread could turn into 50 people recounting their RSI stories, it's rubbish to you. Follow my #1, #2, and #3, and you'll be fine. Ignore any of them, for any reason, and you may cripple yourself.
There's a time and a place for "Ask HN". This isn't. This is a time a place for "Ask a bloody Doctor".
I'd go as far as to say stop what you're doing and move away from the keyboard, make an appointment to see the doc. Every second the poster is here they're just exacerbating the problem.
This post was v interesting:
http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm...
check if out if you haven't read it. I am ordering the book today.
The author of that post talks about a pain that is difficult to distinguish from a sprained wrist or ligament damage. Mine is very different - it is a numb sensation that has a tendency to move around from the wrist, elbow and up into the shoulder.
I ended up going to emergency and getting a cortisone shot, which helped a lot. What I found out that RSI is a cause, pain or numbness are the symptoms, but the root problem can be any number of things. It is best to get it properly diagnosed by a doctor and there is a bit of trial and error involved. At the moment the cortisone is simply treating the symptoms.
I also found that rest doesn't help. I had the flu for 3 days earlier this week and I worked very little during that time - but the pain persisted. The first signs were a week ago but it really flare up last night and today. It was the worst only a few hours after getting back into work after being ill.
I adjusted my ergonomics a while ago - I went from constantly being in a leaning back and feet up position with keyboard on my lap to having my feet planted, arms straight etc. Changing this still didn't prevent the most recent flare-up.
Thanks again for all the info, comforting to know that there are a lot of other ppl who experience similar problems and a lot of people have experiences that they shared.
At first I thought the improvement was due to the ergonomic form of the keyboard, but after using my MacBook Pro's built-in keyboard for months with no pain, I now think that my problem was just that my original cheap, foam-sprung keyboard was just awful for typing. So maybe the answer is to just get a better keyboard.
Additionally, posture and angle of forearms to the keyboard surface is also a factor with any keyboard. Your forearms should be parallel to the ground and your keyboard flat, at least that's what works for me. If your chair is too low this might be forcing you to contort your hands in order to type.
For example, my MacBook Pro's keyboard works fine for me, but the external Apple wireless keyboard (with the same type of keys) causes RSI very quickly. Since the keys are essentially the same on both, I'm sure that this is because the external keyboard is angled (higher in back where the batteries go) while the laptop's keyboard is flat.
(I used to have a kinesis at home, but an errant cup of tea (with honey) kinda put an end to that one. Now I do more typing at work.)
Dvorak would have not helped in this case. It was all about gripping the mouse and bad wrist juju while typing.
I did end up buying a MS ergonomic keyboard which I liked, but ultimately, a new mouse is what was the best solution for me.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Ergonomic-Mouse-SMALL-MEDIUM/dp/B00...
(note it comes in large also). I tried a couple of other designs, but I liked the 3M one the best. It's weird at first, but works well. Thumb for left/right click. I also use the button that's on the stick for scrolling. It's sort of a grab and scroll motion, that works really well. I had to use a utility to implement it: http://www.marcmoini.com/sx_en.html
What worked for him also worked for me.
Use a keyboard without the number pad. With no number pad, your hand doesn't have to move far from the keyboard to get to the mouse (trackball in my case).
I've got foot pedals programmed to be the control and alt keys so I don't have to move my fingers off the main keys at all (except for shift. I never could get used to using a footpad for shift). I've been experimenting with a foot pad for backspace as that is the longest throw I have right now.
Exercise your fingers. Get one of those stress balls and squeeze it. For a long time, I used electronic todo lists or wrote pseudo-code in VIM when thinking about an idea. Now I use notebooks, and I've taught myself to write with both hands (left hand is weak hand. I can read it, but no one else can :). So when I'm stuck or need to make a list, I'll write out what I need to accomplish. I'll squeeze the ball with whatever hand I'm not writing with.
Stretch your fingers and wrists. Before I start work in the morning, I'll stretch my fingers and wrists for 10 to 15 minutes.
I've got a stopwatch to time myself. I'll only code for 1 hour and 50 minutes. Then I'll stop, do nothing for 10 minutes (absolutely nothing. I'll just sit with my eyes closed. If I'm pairing, I'll turn over the keyboard), and then do my stretching exercises for 10 minutes.
One of my biggest contributors was posture. I'd sit slumped so my arms were way higher than they should have been. I've now taught myself to sit upright. I still slip at this sometimes, but I can generally catch it before I've done it too long.
Like I said before, those items helped me. I came up with that list with the help of a physical therapist that watched me work and made suggestions. Some of them may or may not work for you.
It can help when it's really bothering you to wear wrist braces at night to make sure there is no movement and give the inflammation some time to go down. The only other fixes I've been told are regular wrist exercises and obviously making sure your work area is ergonomic. Have a look at some example exercises online, building up certain muscles can drastically help you out.
Good luck with it, hopefully you find something that helps.
Icing at night works wonders for me. RSI can be due to inflammation in the tendon sheaths. Put an incepack (I wrap my in ace bandages to keep them on) for 15 minutes every couple of nights. Don't ice too long, don't let the ice touch your skin, or you'll risk some cold burns.
1. Minimize computer usage - the best way to deal with RSI is to rest your hands. So if you are doing something at the computer that you can avoid, stop doing it.
2. Avoid using a laptop keyboard/trackboard. Most of them are ergonomic disasters. I use a kinesis advantage pro now.
3. Mild exercise like yoga or cycling.
4. xwrits to take frequent typing breaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard
Won't help your current symptoms get better, but could help in the future.
Switching the mouse to the other side really helps. Slowly it goes away.
-In 10th grade, I switched to Dvorak, more-or-less on a whim. After two painful weeks of hating using a computer, I was semi-fluent in typing and could resume normal use. The key was forcing myself to use it for everything. Although this may be wishful thinking, I feel I have become able to type much more comfortably while using Dvorak, and my wrist pains lessened for a few years.
-I have tried to remove the mouse from most of my workflow; I do this primarily by using keyboard shortcuts and Emacs, although last week I started learning how to use vim because A) (proficiency with) two editors are (is) better than (proficiency with) one, and B) its commands seem shorter, which I think might help.
-When I do use a mouse, I now use an Evoluent vertical mouse; this has been one of the most important changes, and relieves much of my wrist pain. I've realized now how unnatural it is to have your hand flat while mousing.
-This summer, I used a Kinesis Advantage Pro contoured keyboard, and pending financial feasibility (e.g. I'm a college student and I owe $23,000 next month) I'll be buying one for my desk; that thing worked wonders.
-In the meantime, I use a Microsoft Natural 4000 ergonomic keyboard, which helps; I'm looking into cutting off the numpad so that the mouse isn't so far off to the right. It's been done before, there are resources online; it's not that hard.
-I've migrated much of my work to a standing desk; this makes it much easier to get proper posture (IKEA Fredrik desk). I have several barstools I can lean on or sit on at the proper height, if I need to rest, although I find I'm more productive standing.
-I stopped playing video games. (The pain persisted, but video games were the worst transgressor) (I didn't play much, but tetrinet / puyo puyo / etc can be pretty nasty to your hands and wrists)
Of course, all of these things probably have the sum usefulness of taking regular typing breaks and doing the proper stretches, which a doctor I met with years ago told me I should do; however, I've found myself to be quite bad at keeping up with that, both enforcing breaks and doing stretches for the duration. I like all of these options because once I set them up, I don't have to do anything (or at least, very little) to maintain (in my opinion) healthy habits for my wrists.
Maybe someday, though, typing breaks and stretching. Never push through the pain; it'll only make it worse next time. When it gets really bad, step back and stop. I never take Advil or any anti-inflammatory for the pain because I don't want to power through it and do damage when I should've listened to my body.