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Comment by pc86 | Hacker News Reader

There's a fine line of course. Just like you don't want to be the guy working 20+ hours of free labor every week, you also don't want to be the guy who is out the door at 5:00:01 every evening and not a second before or after.

I think most people in most jobs will have something come up where they do a little extra, if only to help out a team member or something.

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I am the guy out the door at 5 every day, not a second later. There are too many open positions to not do so. I don’t see it as a fine line, free labor is free labor whether it’s a minute or 20 hours.

If I need to help a team member, I skip lunch to pitch in.

There's no one answer. There are plenty of work cultures where you would be considered the worst member of the team because you're not putting in the time. The classic example is how at many Asian companies nobody dares to leave the office before their boss does. In the US you find the "always hustling" BS. On the other hand, there are jobs where results are 100% and you don't even need to show up at the office as long as you deliver the most value (this is the type I'd much rather do).

If I’m the worst member of the team because I’m not providing free labor, most definitely not a business I want to be at or a team I want to be on. Agree with your second point.

My concern are the employees who feel obligated to provide free work to keep their jobs. That’s what unions used to be for, to keep poor management practices in check, instead of a culture of fear and silent suffering.

I don't think the number of open positions has anything to do with it. In fact, I'm much more likely to agree with you for low-paid position. Just about everyone here who isn't a student (and let's be honest, even some of the students) are extremely well compensated for important but relatively easy jobs. I don't mind 10 minutes here or 15 minutes there if it helps the team out (as opposed to the company).

I just think being unflinchingly rigid in either direction is the problem. If you expect people to work extra time on a regular basis, or consistently, that's bad. If someone asks you a question that will take 15 minutes to answer and you won't do it because it's 4:50 and not 4:45, that's just as bad.

I can appreciate your opinion, but there’s nothing that can’t wait until tomorrow unless it’s life critical. Is it going to only take 15? Or will will it take 30-45 minutes and now I’ve missed dinner with my family for your question that is not critical.

If I don’t defend my time, who else will? I don’t buy the argument about rigidness being a bad thing. That’s how boundaries work best: clearly defined and enforced.

You say rigid, I say professional.

It's a bank account. If I notice the company often needs bursts of work, I'll leave a little early every day so that I have reserve funds to pitch in extra time when needed. If I'm working 40 hour weeks already, there's nothing left in the account.

When you're young and without responsibilities, there is no glaring cost to giving away free labor, but if I do so, it comes directly out of my time with my kids.

I just think it has to go both ways. I don't want my boss coming to me with a problem because I worked 7h 58m one day. On the flip side, I'm not going to send him a bill or count the minutes if I stay a few minutes late a different day.

I said it in another comment but it's being unflinchingly rigid that I think in a problem (in either direction).

In a country where sick pay is only called sick pay and where if your child is sick and stays home you still have to pay nursery but you don't actually get paid I really don't see a point in doing extra work. I still do it sometimes because it is the way I am but I don't judge anyone if they leave exactly on the hour. I am not complaining since my paycheck is allright but I can't imagine people with lower salaries and how they struggle with things like mentioned above. The whole system is broken.

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