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Comment by phkahler | Hacker News Reader

I'm beginning to think increasing minimum wage will help. You don't need to tax the rich, just make them pay their people better. But that's still at odds with two thing. 1) it will increase incentive for more automation - but that's already happening as fast as the engineers can do it. 2) it will increase the incentive to use undocumented workers who can be paid under the table below minimum wage. Before we can talk about increasing the minimum wage I think we need to make sure everyone who works is actually getting it.

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I don't think minimum wage increases work. There are some unintended consequences. Let's say you pay people $15/hour to flip burgers. They have a higher wage but companies generally pass this cost increase on to consumers. All companies that raised these prices tend to be the ones that the poor people shop at. In the end you don't get the increase in buying power that you might think just by raising wages.

Additionally, what about the EMT that went to school for 2 years and makes $36K ($18/hour)? You have now totally destroyed the value of their education investment and made this job undesirable. Over time, people won't choose this job without wage increases. This may not happen instantly but eventually this ripples higher and higher. As it does so, the wage increase cause higher prices. Eventually at equilibrium it doesn't seem likely to me that anyone's buying power is really improved.

I still think the only solution is to tax the "rich" more and move to almost no taxes for those that are poorer. There is no reason at all to tax someone who is making minimum wage. Given the wage gap, the tax doesn't even need to increase very much to do this.

No, you need to enforce the immigration laws in this case. Increasing the 'incentive' to use illegal immigrants is increasing the incentive to break the law. Typical thinking I suppose. Don't go after the people that break the law, let them break it and create another law to penalize them. This makes no sense to me. And don't say "they're doing it anyway" - that's bullshit. Fine these businesses and arrest the owners for that.

There is no need to tax the rich more even tho this is the penalty du jour. This will do nothing to fix any of this. People need to stop taxing the rich and work to getting rich themselves (taboo here on HN of course).

Your flipping burgers job or grocery bagging job or ditch digging job should not be a career. Because of the fact that those are not careers firstly, and secondly, because they will be automated away. You need to use that as a stepping stone to something better. It is not easy to get rich - it is a long road. But it is one that you should use to better yourself so you can achieve.

There is no incentive with universal income. None with welfare. Sure, let the government provide a minimum safety net, but (as I have learned the hard way) your family and close friends are the ones that should be helping you out. Not the state. Minimum wage is a state imposed artificial penalty pushed on businesses. As a business owner, costs are my enemy and while I offer to provide fair wages for those I employ, having the state impose an artificial cost make business harder. If it continues to get harder, it cannot be maintained.

So, if your goal is to put businesses out of business (who employs you then?), then min wage and tax increases along with cost increases will keep doing that. I'm not talking about mega corps, I'm talking about real businesses. More people need to start their own businesses to see how clear cut all this is. There's a reason companies flee states like California - because the costs to run a business there along with the high taxes make it a difficult place to live. And that's the truth. Just ask anyone who has left..

If an employee can only provide $10 of value to a business per hour, let's say, then employers have no incentive to hire them if the have to pay > $10/h. $8-10/h is better than no pay.

3) it will increase the incentive to send work offshore to poorer countries

Import tariffs - standard solution to that. The folks yelling "free trade" don't acknowledge that we don't actually have free trade in the first place. All these things need to be kept in balance. It's hard, but that's what governing is supposed to be about.

edit. Actually no. Most of the jobs we're talking about are local. Importing stuff from cheaper places is similar to automation.

Those work for goods, but what about services like outsourcing IT and call centers to India?

Free trade would lift hundreds of millions out of poverty.

https://www.copenhagenconsensus.com/sites/default/files/post...

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