Saudi Arabia runs online database of women to track them, stop them running away
businessinsider.com
businessinsider.com
I know a guy from a small country in that region that begins with Q and sounds like a common word for mucous membrane inflammation. His late father was an imam. He wears the traditional garb when he is home. He is a fairly standard [person from that country].
I asked him why he feels women shouldn't have equal rights to men.
The beginning of his response: "Well, it is medically proven that women are natural carriers of disease…"
That's the culture there.
EDIT: Removed the country name because I'm flying their airline tomorrow.
It is very, very difficult to combat pseudoscience draped with religious authority.
Luckily, that never happens in the Western world.
At least not these days anyway.
Nobody is being systematically murdered at the command of even America's nuttiest televangelists.
Don't blame the entire western world for something stupid that only the US does.
Many muslims are vocal about the need for Islamic reform.
If you believe it is bigoted to be critical of Islam, then you are an apologist for the oppression of women and homosexuals.
Nice strawman and conflation of legitimate issues with illegitimate fear, but no, I was referring to bigotry, not criticism.
There's a difference between criticising Islamic culture and believing Islam is a "religion of evil," that Muslims cannot integrate with Western culture, that their mere presence of Muslims in a community is a threat to Western culture and public safety, etc.
And exactly what "idiocy" is that? I see some problems with right-wing extremism in Europe lately, but the same thing is happening in America, and I don't see protests with heavily-armed neo-Nazis happening in Europe the way they are in America (much less with the nation's leader calling them "fine people").
In fact, the rest of the "western world" really doesn't seem to have a lot of problems AFAICT, not the way America does. They have some problems, of course, just like anyone, but the scope and scale seem to pale in comparison, and they seem to be getting a handle on them for the most part, instead of letting them fester or spin out of control.
Ok, fuck this. Woke up this morning and read the following:
- US is pulling out of the Nuclear treaty with Russia
- there's a huge cavity in Antarctic glacier
- your anecdote
I'm going for a walk, I guess I'm off the internet for today.
This is driving me nuts -- what is this word?
I mean, I’m sure you wouldn’t argue online from a position of complete ignorance, right?
Do you want me to tell you stories of people like that in the US? I've worked with plenty of people who tell me that women are good for nothing except making more children. Should I tell you that the culture in the US is all about looking at women just as childbearers?
True, I've never been to a country that starts with a "Q", but I've met many who have, many who tell differing tales. I have been in a muslim country long enough, I have my own perceptions on these things.
From other comments you’ve made, it appears you live in Turkey. I don’t think your experience applies, given Turkey’s recent political dispute with the Saudis over the Khashoggi murder.
Notably, Turkey is also not a member of the Arab League.
"Under her father's guardianship, she watched her teen brother spend a $1,600 monthly allowance as he pleased, while she begged for money to buy the most basic products. "I couldn't even buy anything for my period," she said. "It was my brother who paid for it, all the time, and he was younger than me.""
How awful that must be, for her to know that societies in foreign countries dont treat her like that..
I'm sure they do and the answer is certainly always something that can be blamed on the woman.
[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/28/why-o...
Children's history books in the future won't include what people thought of the messenger at the time. Just that an issue came to light and a problem was fixed. So the irony doesn't really have much to say about the capacity to operate under the panel's guidelines.
This thread:
"hey my country does horrible things (that I'm totally exempt from in the upper echelon) but I'm not allowed to research what other countries do on the panel formed specifically to do that"
What's also amazing to me is seeing this culture defended by the left, when if most muslims were given power in Europe they would strip away most rights for women and homosexuals that the left also fought for
You're going to need a citation for that. Projecting such a large claim against such a large heterogeneous blob of people with absolutely zero evidence to back it up should not be acceptable on HN
Like if I where to claim that not all facism is racistic, because facism was historically a very heterogenous blob of people with absolutly zero evidence to back up that they all where as racistic as the nazis. Then i would be wrong.
To some ideologies, there is no right to repair, because the basic concept subverts human rights and democracy.
The left isn't afraid of Muslims in the US because not only are they usually more progressive than their fundamentalist counterparts but also because they're a minority population with very little political power.
It's a rather disengenous argument. I see very little fear or animosity pointed towards the groups that are actively in power and trying to tear things down versus the scapegoat being blamed for the actions of another country.
Cheaper for the US as a whole perhaps (even probably), but the military-industrial complex would make less money.
Too late; I can hear the drones taking off already.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/saudi-sisters-whose-bod...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-crime-sisters-sa...
"""" Tala Farea, 16, and Rotana Farea, 23, who had previously been living in Virginia, were found along the rocky Manhattan shore of the Hudson River with duct tape around their waist and ankles. A New York Police Department official has said they likely entered the water alive and were said to have preferred suicide over returning to Saudi Arabia.
Their mother told detectives the day before the bodies were discovered that the Saudi Embassy in Washington had ordered the family to leave the United States because the daughters had applied for political asylum """"
A headline like "Apple facilitates subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia" might have a chance of making that happen. If Cisco helped build the Great Firewall, they'd be excoriated here on HN. This seems similar.
The only theory I can come up with is that most feminists believe in freedom of religion as well as women’s freedom and the conflict between the two induces a sort of moral paralysis.
Have you done research into what feminists believe, or if there is any feminist activism in that direction?
Because I'm certain that a lot of them are vehemently opposed to the way women are treated in Saudi Arabia, including feminists in Saudi Arabia.
Actually even if you can find some by going and looking, I am interested.
There's the more minor controversy of people criticising Mariah Carey for having a concert there https://spy.nzherald.co.nz/celebrity/mariah-carey-slammed-fo...
But the bulk of the work for Saudi Arabia is being done by Saudi activists (which is unsurprising) https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/worl...
I think the reason there aren't more is that protests are pretty much always about a local issue (which is true of all protests, it's why HN cares a lot about privacy in the US and EU but doesn't agitate as much about it in places like the Middle East or China). I think you're confusing lack of large scale protests and thinking it's okay, to use HN userbase as an example I know people who have protested various US privacy laws who haven't been to a protest about the Great Firewall. That clearly doesn't mean they don't think it's a human rights issue.
Also KSA's cozy relationship with West and how KSA makes US fight its war signals to other countries that as long as you have pockets big enough to buy politicians, lobbyists, bankers etc, US will be your ally even if pedophilia is legal and practiced in the country. Sickening and damn shame.
Joking aside, it is sad, in the US we still have so many sex inequality issues, it is so difficult to fathom countries THIS far behind us in that regard.
If that fails, why is literally the entire tech world doing business with them? Why are their internet uplinks still active, why do Western companies trade with them and why has no one in the SV a major problem with Saudi investment funds?
We as techies are as complicit in enabling these abusers as our governments are.
Access to information about the rest of the world is a huge help. As the article highlights social media is providing information women need to escape.
While I agree it's despicable that businesses work with these countries access to information is one of the few ways to undermine these terrible regimes.
Just like with children: those who misbehave get punished. If the Western world wants Saudi-Arabia and friends to grow up it cannot let them continue unchecked.
I have no such towards my family or extended family, and it never came up as an issue in either native Ukraine or currently Isreal
Is Interpol involved here because it's a possible international missing persons case? Or was it already a "criminal" investigation based on a warrant issued by Saudi Arabia?
> Creeping barefoot out of the bedroom, al-Mohaimeed gathered her family's credit cards, keys, passports, and, crucially, their phones. This would slow them down, she thought, when they tried to follow her.
So was this intervention prioritized for some reason or is the timeline in the article just misleading?
>Shahad al-Mohaimeed was 17 when she ran away.
so it is possible that they had a case about a minor that escaped her family (or that was kidnapped, etc.).
Or maybe people could just stop treating other people as property. Interesting that wasn't your suggested solution. Perhaps because it's not that easy?
Your comment (though said in jest - I hope) is dismissive of the very real and very dangerous consequences Saudi women face in trying to exercise their most basic of human rights. You're putting the responsibility of "escaping" on the victims. Don't you think they've thought of that? Many have risked everything to do just that.
What does your comment add to the conversation? Nothing of value.
Though now I'm wondering if such a civilization existed if it wouldn't be part of their moral imperative to educate other cultures about their morality, or if being sufficiently moral assumes that other entities need the ability to explore morality on their own.
Seems like moral relativism to me.
That's because someone thought it was a small thing, then made fun of it, then persisted. I actually think that no other type of language can reach the people that are in that mode, and pull them in to what I'd call "get your head out your ass mode"